Spawn owning.... a way to keep it from happening...

[Gravalden]

I had a thought about the monsters...

I see no baby monsters.. By this I mean Trepor larva and Consumer larva and ulber cubs or tuf babys what ever you would call them......

All the modelers would have to do is just make the existing models and make them smaller. Now with the stats that thes monsters would have would be 1/4 the stats of an adult monster of its type.

Loot would be the same just smaller (i.e ulber cub claw)
Now the real debate on this idea would be... How much would the loot go for. Because in some cases the baby parts are worth more then the adult parts in real life..

exp. Baby monsters should yield no exp or pp what so ever..... cuz well how hard is it to kill a baby..... I know that was sick and morbid but it got my point across.

Again just another thought tell me what you all think about it..

Thank you
Gravalden

[Wired_Crawler]

Originally posted by Neryam
But what about creatures like Rogues?

I thought somebody already mentioned, that mobs like Rogues, Gladiators, Mercenaries etc. should be more inteligent.
Players could challenge them, like in the case of PvP, by using /challenge or verbally (insulting ? ) :

Player: /challenge
Thug: \"Go away, I\'m not in the mood.\"
or
Player tells Gladiator: \"You! I don\'t like your face.\"
Gladiator tells Player: \"Come here, I\'ll fix yours.\"
or

Mercenary to Player: \"You have trespassed my personal area. Defend yourself.\"

Inteligent mobs could accept or reject challenge, server could roll dice and/or examine player\'s stats to decide, if the fight should be started:

Newbie tells Rogue: \"You fight me.\"
Rogue tells Newbie: \"Go away, weakling. I don\'t wanna kill ya.\"

Newbie tells Rogue (20th time): \"I am telling you i\'m strong, fight me\"
Rogue tells Newbie: \"Well, if you want it so badly...\"
or
Powerbie tells Thug: \"Defend yourself!\"
Thug tells Powerbie: \"I beg You, don\'t harm me!\"

Basically, they would be like current \"inteligent\" NPCs with ability to fight.

[Gravalden]

wired

question would you be willing to do the programing for this..... By this i mean that would couse the programers to have to work twice as hard as they are working already... I love the idea but to spare the programers to much work on a \"HOBBY PROJECT\" which planeshift is, this seems to be FAR to much work..... I agree that the monster AI and npc AI does need to be reworked a bit but for the time being it works just fine... this would also cause all kinds of player problems (i.e players complaining that they can\'t kill a monster cuz it does not want to fight them.) As it stands the way we fight monsters is fine... Not giving the bandit, rogue...ect a choice in whether they get attacked or not is really up to the player that wants to take this monster on... Because I personaly have taken on ulbers and won.. with liberal use of my potions shortcut..... So that proves some one that is weaker then a monster can actually can beat a much stronger monster...

If they choose to take on a stronger monster and die well then that is their own fault. we should not give the monster ability to decide who they will or will not fight..

Thank you
Gravalden

[Wired_Crawler]

Originally posted by Gravalden
wired

question would you be willing to do the programing for this.....

I\'d love to, if I had a time... but unfortunately I have not, that\'s why I\'ve posted it in \"Wish list\" forum, in this specific thread. I can\'t judge, how hard it would be to program. Let developers choose the ideas, which suit their aims and abilities. Anyway...

I love the idea ...

Thank You for supporting my wish

As for the last part of Your post - I thought, the question was: \"How to make spawn owning less attractive\"... If mob denied to fight, there would be no reason to camp at spawn point... Am I wrong ? And, if mob denied to fight (in other words - it choses player to fight with), there would be no reason to call GMs etc.

Thank You for replying, it does not happen very often to me

[Gravalden]

Yes wired I did go off topic a bit but I could not help it they got my brain working..... which is soooooo rare ever sence i got married... But thats another matter:P

and I feelyour pain on not geting replyed to I really do but back to the debate at hand...

yes there would be no reason to camp the spawn site but this would also make more problems then its really worth...

Giving the monsters the ability to govern wither or not to be attacked is kind of redundent cuz people would not only complane about it more offten then not people would stand there trying to kill the monster and it would keep saying no over and over again and when it does finely accept the fight with use of a potions shortcut the weaker player could beat it... that would make people go wait a minute.... it said no i\'m stronger then you i will kill you.. and find it not only pointless that the monster was saying that but become bored with the game cuz they have to sit there and wait till it will actually fight them.......

Thank you
Gravalden

[Ivniciix]

I jsut have to wonder if the whole \"problem\" of spawn camping won\'t solve itself as more of the world is opened up and populated with monsters. Presumably, some of the higher level mobs will move up to higher levels and the lower ones will \"expand\" to fill up the lower levels.

Am I wrong about this migration being part of future plans?

[TiagoTiago]

this is my 2 cents 8o)

what if monsters would only spawn if they were not in the field of view of any player?
this would solve 2 problems at once, first the monsters wouldn\'t be seen apearing from nowhere (just make the spawn areas near somewhere that could explain the apearing of the monster
and it would also solve the problem o camping, all the players  includin the ones not in the group should be all facing the other way for for the monster to spawn, this would automaticly distribute the players, as they would have to go else where to find mosnters

and make the monster test for looks after random times, they check to see if anybody is seeing, it will spawn or not and randomize the time, after the random time period passes it checks again, and so on

the random time would make the campers frustrated, as they would not know when to look there again, if they look at the wrong time the monster would not spawn and they would risk the random time to be reset to a long time

and also to recycle monsters the same strategy with few alterations could be used to the disapearing of the monsters if they wondered for more than N minutes without being seen by a player he would disapear, as for the monsters stucking, perhaps divide the world in several smal areas ( 2x2 meters squares for example) if the monster stay on one square for more than N minutes he would be \"aimed\" to the previus square and go in that direction, and if he still don\'t manage to reach that square in less than Y minutes its colsion detection, perhaps based on a cylinder , would get more and more insensitive, smaler radius perhaps, untill  themonster has its colision detection deactivated if necessary to reach th previus 2x2 meters square
ofcourse that the time the monster stay in the same place would not count if he is attacking


I am just not sure of the processing cost of checking the field of views of several players, perhaps a proximity or motion detection could be used instead

[derwoodly]

I am all for anything that makes monsters more like monsters and less like toast.  I like the unseen monster spawn.  looks like it would be the same as DaveG\'s idea only with a very large radius and a random timer.

However, we do need to level some how.  It might take hours to find a mob this way.  As you explore you would be continualy reseting the moster spawn timers. With enough roaming players you might never see a Mob.

To compinstate for the reduction in Mobs, I would want a training ground.  Where I could spare with NPS with a wooden sword or some such thing. The sparing would let you gain skill but not loot.

[Platyna]

\"Hi, can we share?\"
\"Hello, can I try one?\"
\"Heya, could you tell me if there is somewhere spawn of similar creature?\"

That\'s the code I suggest newcomers to compile...


Regards.

[derwoodly]

Wouldest that be said better as...

Greetings citizen,  I wish to help you on your rat killing quest!

or

Hail!  I seek the one they call \'rouge\' might you tell me where I can find him?

[Gravalden]

players should not have to ask another player if they can kill something..... plain and simple.
the only way to fix this is to make it so no one knows where the monsters spawn... i.e randomizing the spawn points is the only way to fix the spawn camp problem... Because if you have to ask some one if you can kill something they have power over that monster and no player should hold power over a spawn point...so if no one knows where the monster will spawn no one will ever have to ask to kill a monster ever again....

Thank you
Gravalden

[TiagoTiago]

well, my idea don\'t necessarily exlcude others, depending in the necessity there would be diferent spawn and combat rules on diferent areas
nad on the possibikity of not having an spawn arrea free for spawing form having toomuch people, the variables could be dinamic, time could increase, or the number of monsters pooling that area could increase, the sensibility of tge watching detection could decrease, perhaps making the spawn point need to be in sight for more time to  activate triger the to not spawn and reset reset, making the random time in between sight checks smaller,  and possibly lots other possibilities I have not thought about

as it would be a very complex process,due to it involving the human interaction and reactions, it would probably require some fine tune on it till it becomes ususally self-regulable,I believe that most people would go look else where for monsters if they stay somewhere too long without seeeing one, and the news would spread that that area was not good for hunting and more people would go else where, asenough people leave for look for monsters elsewhere the number of monsters would slowly increase in that area, it would be somehwta alike a living ecosystem, too much predators around and the prey would become sparse, less predators and the number of preys would increase

[derwoodly]

I am trying to invision your system, but I keep haveing the same problem.  I fear there will not be enough spawns for leveling.  However since this is a Tech demo, I wish the Devs would experiment a bit

[Gravalden]

TiagoTiago

i see your point on making the spawns not do anything when some one is around.. but derwoodly does have a very good point on the fact that there would be to few spawns in a given area for lvling and or questing... (i.e some one killed the monster.... about 3 minutes later when the monster is about to spawn some one runs thru the area not knowing a monster spawns there .... BAM reset of the timer cuz the system will think hes watching the spawn... got to wait another 3 minutes or what ever the times might be for the monster to spawn....)

The root of my idea with randamizing the spawn points is you keep the same number of monsters in a given area (i.e ojroad) when one is killed the spawn point moves to another place all togather (i.e you kill the rogue on the forest path to the magic shop 30 sec later he pops up in the ruins or some where in the vastness that which is ojaroad..) this would keep people moving around endlessly to find monsters to kill... making better use of the stamina system and forces people to become very familar with the landscapes and or labyrinth. this would have an impact on player knowage over all making the game have to be that much more vast.

which would cause the programers to make things BIGGER hehehe

Thank you
Gravalden

[darkw00t]

Making a few different servers could help as well, as there would be the same amount of monsters on each one