Author Topic: A radical idea.  (Read 1221 times)

zanzibar

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A radical idea.
« on: September 03, 2005, 09:10:46 am »
What about eliminating completely \"x dealt y damage to z\" messages from the system chat window?  That is, when you start an attack, you see and hear your character attack and you see and hear your character being attacked.  You also see the health bars rise and fall, but that\'s it.  No messages which give you the exact numbers for how much damage is being by what to what.  One less thing for the RPers to complain about.


I\'m not saying it\'s a great idea, but has it been proposed before?  Searches didn\'t turn up anything.
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Drey

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« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2005, 09:37:44 am »
er.. the messages already say how much dammage you are doing/recieving...
<Rux> i wish i could say that narrows it down, but the internet is one freaky place

Draklar

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« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2005, 10:09:31 am »
Quote
Originally posted by Drey
er.. the messages already say how much dammage you are doing/recieving...

Read the post again :P

Oh and by the way: Role-players can disable damage messages in the options.
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zanzibar

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« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2005, 10:39:12 am »
Quote
Originally posted by Draklar
Role-players can disable damage messages in the options.




Now that surprises me.  The elitist RPers are constantly complaining about such messages clogging up their chat windows.
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Wired_Crawler

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« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2005, 11:02:23 am »
Yes, that was already proposed by others like here and discussed like here.
I\'m sure I have seen at least one more thread with suggestion of changing numbers to more general descriptions. It ended with conclusion, that in current stage of development numbers are needed for debugging purposes.
And here are the said options:
"Close the world, txEn eht nepO."

Seytra

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« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2005, 12:34:04 am »
Quote
Originally posted by zanzibar
Quote
Originally posted by Draklar
Role-players can disable damage messages in the options.

Now that surprises me.  The elitist RPers are constantly complaining about such messages clogging up their chat windows.

That is because they appear where they are not supposed to appear. In the arena, they are to be expected, whereas in the plaza or the tavern they are not. Conversely, in the arena, RP is less likely to happen and one knows what one is getting oneself into there.
Anyway, this options would be more useful if they would allow one to filter any messages that don\'t directly concern oneself. As they are now, you can either see what everyone does to everyone else, or you can\'t see what anyone except you does, even if to yourself.

zanzibar

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« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2005, 11:17:23 am »
Quote
Originally posted by Seytra
Quote
Originally posted by zanzibar
Quote
Originally posted by Draklar
Role-players can disable damage messages in the options.

Now that surprises me.  The elitist RPers are constantly complaining about such messages clogging up their chat windows.

That is because they appear where they are not supposed to appear. In the arena, they are to be expected, whereas in the plaza or the tavern they are not. Conversely, in the arena, RP is less likely to happen and one knows what one is getting oneself into there.
Anyway, this options would be more useful if they would allow one to filter any messages that don\'t directly concern oneself. As they are now, you can either see what everyone does to everyone else, or you can\'t see what anyone except you does, even if to yourself.




Doesn\'t sound like a big deal to me... I have health potions hotkeyed.  I just keep an eye on my health bar -- when it falls below 60%, I drink a potion.  The messages about combat are just clutter.
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DaveG

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« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2005, 04:36:28 pm »
The problem is that most of the time, it\'s clutter.  Every once in a while, it\'s nice to \"sense\" the strength of the people around me.  (which, btw, should be a skill...)  And, sometimes I\'d like to be told how much damage I\'m doing, or how often I miss, simply to gauge my own strength.  It\'s just that the only way to turn it on/off is to go into the options.  Ideally, the best solution would be to replace it with a less obtrusive reporting method.

Alternatives are popup damage numbers and/or a hovering health bar, for all NPCs within range.  Though, the immersion arguments have convinced me that neither would be that great of an idea.

Here\'s my idea:
  • Remove target info from infowindow, and move it to a \"sense\" window.  This new window would contain all info you\'re sensing, with detail levels determined by your skill at doing so.  It would take some practice to accurately gauge how much damage you\'re doing, not to mention someone else.
  • The sense window will have (in order of increasing skill required):

a. Target info
b. Combat info about target
c. Combat info within range (including kill reports)
d. Magic info within range
e. Skill use info within range
  • Ranges would each be determined by the sensing skill(s).
  • The player could choose to \"focus\" their abilities, and use mana to temporarily extend their range(s) using a skill.
  • If these ranges get long, the messages border on spam.  So, we\'d also need an option to manually restrict the range(s).

::  PlaneShift Team Programmer  ::

zanzibar

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« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2005, 07:50:44 pm »
Doesn\'t seem realistic to me.... just standing around, and suddenly you \"sense\" that the person behind you hit a clacker for 2.67 times some constant.  Maybe hits should be given different sounds based on how much damage the deal?
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Seytra

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« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2005, 12:49:11 am »
Quote
Originally posted by zanzibar
Doesn\'t seem realistic to me.... just standing around, and suddenly you \"sense\" that the person behind you hit a clacker for 2.67 times some constant.  Maybe hits should be given different sounds based on how much damage the deal?

Realistically, you would face them or at least have them in your field of vision, so you would see them. It\'s just that due to game mechanics it\'s usually not feasible to do so. This limitation is, partially, countered by not restricting information gathering by field of vision, not counting that you\'d also hear a lot of difference. With experience, one will likely be able to determine what was hit where by what with what damage by just listening to it. This level of detail obviously is not feasible to convey through the sound samples yet.

Draklar

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« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2005, 01:19:42 am »
Yay, realism...
Realistically you would be able to track the state of a fight only by a careful observation. That means targetting the fighters and observing their health state is the only rational way of getting to know how the fight goes. Getting numbers representing damage by all means isn\'t realistic either. If similar blow can take 1/4 of Trepor\'s health and 1/10 of rogue\'s one then there is absolutely no way you could figure out the power of a warrior.
If someone wants role-playing experience, I advise disabling all messages.
If someone disagrees, I advise watching a real-life sword fight to find out how easy it is to figure out whether someone got blocked, or if he did miss, or how strong was the blow...
« Last Edit: September 05, 2005, 01:20:23 am by Draklar »
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Seytra

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« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2005, 01:29:57 am »
Quote
Originally posted by Draklar
If someone disagrees, I advise watching a real-life sword fight to find out how easy it is to figure out whether someone got blocked, or if he did miss, or how strong was the blow...

Even for another experienced sword fighter? I cannot claim expertise here, but wouldn\'t another sword fighter have to be able to judge this sort of thing, simply because they will have to anticipate / deal with it themselves quite often?
Also, still, when you are involved, you will know if you blocked or were blocked, and if you (were) hit and how strong, no?

Draklar

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« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2005, 01:53:16 am »
Quote
Originally posted by Seytra
Even for another experienced sword fighter? I cannot claim expertise here, but wouldn\'t another sword fighter have to be able to judge this sort of thing, simply because they will have to anticipate / deal with it themselves quite often?

It always needs a careful observation. If you\'re engaged into talk with someone or even move your sight away, you might only hear the clash of steel or at best also \"perceive\" the fight. Difference between being experienced and not is, imo, something along lines of being able to tell how the blows influence fighter\'s health (not being experienced, you\'ll be only able to tell it when a fighter is hardly walking). Being able to perceive the health as we can perceive it in the form of a health bar is absolute mastering of such skill, and I doubt even something like that ever happens.
On tournaments judges need to stand pretty close and keep observing the fighters to judge who won the duel...

Quote
Originally posted by Seytra
Also, still, when you are involved, you will know if you blocked or were blocked, and if you (were) hit and how strong, no?

You\'ll have pain kicking your ass and adrenaline rushing in your veins. This means you\'ll only know the basics of what is happening (represented by health bars), knowing that your opponent is delivering slightly stronger blows is a big no-no. It all goes down to how much it hurts or if it doesn\'t hurt at all.

Another thing is knowing how others do in the moment of your fight... From my experience it\'s not quite possible without stopping to fight for a while...
« Last Edit: September 05, 2005, 01:56:12 am by Draklar »
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