Originally posted by Seytra
Absolutely there will be evil. However, the major difference is that in any game it usually is controlled so that it never gets out of hand. Challenge / realism or not, there is reason why the term \"griefing\" came into existance. I never said everyone gets along with everyone else. The difference is to what extent troublemakers can be allowed to roam freely. This is why a mutual agreement of some sort must be reached, since otherwise there would be no way to differentiate between RP and OOC jerk-ness. And no, the latter must never be allowed. Duelling newbies surely is the latter, and it\'s by far out-occuring RP.
Whiule uncontrolled jerkness would surely be realistic, games can only be realistic to a certain extent until they cease being games.
RP involves being responsible in whatever you do to others, and there is no way of assuring this except mutual agreement. Zanzibar, you say that \"interference, hinderence, obstacles, surprises, and challenges are what good roleplaying experiences are based on.\" and make it seem as if this would conflict with \"this idea that nothing should happen that \"interferes with the role playing experience of other players\"\". However, actually it is an intrinsic part of it! Indeed without hinderances, etc. there would be very few RP opportunity. The major difference is what is acceptable and what is not. You want a \"free for all\" environment, where whatever you do can be claimed to be RP and thus acceptable. This concept cannot work, however. If it did, there would be no rules in any MMORPG. It is fun for those who powerlevel and then deal the \"hinderances\" to other, less experienced players.
The only way to do it right is to, in all respects, never go above what the other player can deal with while still enjoying the game. And the only way to do so is mutual agreement. It is absolutely possible to RP being surprised while you have agreed upon the ambush OOC-ly. It is one of the most important abilities of any RPer to be able to clearly differentiate IC and OOC. However, for this to work, it is necessary that one can trust the other player in that it is really is RP only and not OOC greed, carelessness or similar despisable things.
This self-moderation is in PnP RPGs done by the GM, and the players know they can trust / rely on the GM. In an MMORPG, this GM role must be assumed by each player, and thus they need to be trustworthy as well. And if I am not completely sure that I can trust another player to be responsible and moderated, I am not going to interact with that player. This is where open PvP, thieving, etc. systems fail completely, and why they are causeing so much grief: becuase untrustworthy players can force themselves upon others, thereby disrupting the RP not by the doing of evil or good, but by being irresponsible.
Heh, when i reed this 10 hours ago, when i was going to sleep, there was no replies. But i wanted to answer this, so here it comes.
Everyone knows what people play PS, there are both valuable roleplayers and people who have no idea what is that, or don\'t want to know. We are all playing together, no matter what. We are supposed to interact with each other. We can ignore some of them, but can\'t deny their existance, because they are so big group of people.
From one side you say that there can\'t be free for all like in real, because of people who dont roleplay and are acting to spoil others fun from playing.
But from other side because of mutual agreement we can decide about thing which we cant in real. Then we are expecting that when interacting with others we can be sure it will be roleplaying, not ooc behaviour. Can we really do? Aren\'t those people the same people because of which there is no \"free for all\"? The same group which you wanted to forbid from doing this what harass you?
So you choose to ignore them, like they wasn\'t existing. Why to deny them? Wasn\'t there he same people in medieval times? There still all, people who try to take advantage on someone else.
Why not fight them insted of ignoring? The more we try to stop them, the more we hurt ourselves. Sure this won\'t be a problem for a person who spent his/her time on plaza or in tavern. But if you go out, seeking for adventure, there will be none.
Seytra, you say that we can rp ambush. Both sides know about the ambush as they both have to agree with possibility their characters will be killed bu the other. The true rp-er is supposed to have fun from the ambush... its suprise? What suprise? You ca try to play that, but one must have really two independent personalities, so that it will work. I will say on my example, because i don\'t fear to talk about my rp skills and i\'m aware of this what i can and what can\'t. I have to be same suprised by the ambush as my character would be. I can play that, but fun from it will be decreased to minimum as it will be as any other fight, not ambush.
Now, will you ignore me as i can\'t do the same what you? Or maybe you won\'t make ambush on group of people which i\'m part? And in other cases you will interact as normal.
If so, when you will be writing a story or talk about that, you will ignore certain facts and add those which didnt happen? And this only because otherwise story would be ooc.
\"Conan killed all my family and now came the time of revange as i\'m ready to fight with him. But Conan didn\'t agreed on that and nothing can be done about it, i can\'t revenge death of my family\"
If we won\'t try to develop a diferent system and keep thinking it is because of mutual agreement. Nothing good will happen.
Why If there are people which goal is to hurt others, there can\'t be people who protect the weak and fight with criminals?
I haven\'t seen a MMORPG where it would happen.
PS isn\'t commercial project and i\'m sure it is more likely to happen we would work out a system where the people who break the law would be proportionaly punished.
The rogues, bandits and others aren\'t only stupid NPCs, but they could be other players.
