The leveling system makes no sense

[Gentar]

Well after expirementing with crystal blue for some time now I\'ve noticed that the skill system really makes no sense what so ever and i beleive it needs to be revamped. here is my case.

1. How does fighting monsters give you the skill to rank up mining, or any other skill for that matter? this makes absolutely no sense.

2. You would think, that practicing in a skill would increase your ability to perform it, even without training. Im aware that after visiting a trainer you are required to practice that skill, but this only takes a matter of minutes to level up and after that you gain no experience no matter how much you use it until you go back to a trainer.

3. The system almost makes you not want to use a skill unless youve gone to a trainer, because you know you;re wasteing your time in terms of gaining levels

I realize all of the role players would argue saying that you should perform a skill for its use and not to level it up, however the roleplayers should also have a problem with the unviability of the system. Since when in real life did cooking help you play soccer, and since when did practiceing something, even not when taking classes in the subject, not increase your skill with it.

I realize that planeshift wanted a unique system for leveling, but it is an illogical system.

Perhaps you could better it by:
1. making different types of progression points: Crafting points, Combat points, Social points, Magic points. You could then use these points to train in certain areas within those boundaries.
2. As for trainers, maybe they could just speed up the process to gaining a new level. For instance, If you visit a trainer you gain twice as much practice when doing the skill for one level. Then when you advance to that level you gain practice at a slower rate until you go back to a trainer. Training could be required onlyat certain levels, and otherwise could be optional to make leveling easier.

I seriosly doubt that they will change the sytem but it was just an observation I made.

[Efflixi Aduro]

I like your different types of pp idea. Fighting to gain mining skills doesn\'t make much sense.  

[zanzibar]

There is no fighting to gain mining!  There is only mining to gain mining!  Unless I\'ve missed something horribly obvious!


To number two, the idea is that practical experience relies on theoretical experience.  I think that training should go faster with a trainer, but you should be able to advance based purely on practical experience as well.  Training should just make things go faster.


Number three is silly.  Skills exist to be used because they\'re usefull.  They aren\'t there simply to level up.

[Efflixi Aduro]

HE means you fight to earn pp and then you use the pp for somthing else.

[Moogie]

I agree, it makes no sense at all. Hopefully by the time Steel Blue rolls around, we\'ll have overwhelmed Talad with enough concrete evidence that he can no longer argue against changing it.

[ramlambmoo]

I agree.  The current system doesnt really make a whole lot of sense.  I think having progression points for different areas would be a good idea; either that or just a complete overhaul of the system.

[Drey]

i agree with what zanzibar said, and shouldnt stats be harder to train than skills like it used to be?

[Mith]

Yea, perhaps PP in the following area\'s:
Combat (weapons, armor use)
Casting
Crafting

Also I agree with Theoretical knowledge not being necessary compared to practical.  Perhaps you can use trainers to increase skill to a certain point (albiet low) but after that only practical knowledge works.  That might make it seem that theoretical knowledge only helps low level people.  But then again, we could use theoretical knowledge as a way to also use special manuvers, or how to mine new ores or crafter different types of items.  After that all practical.  Hope this makes sense, might be too condensed.

[Xordan]

Well not everything is implimented yet, but still, I don\'t like it either and would rework it from scratch. It\'s not my decision though.

[hitancrias]

I never saw the point of progress points or experience points. If you train a skill, you get practical experience in that skill, there\'s no need to also get some general exp./pp. \"Spending pps\" is just a strange system to transfer experience in one skill to an other. If we don\'t want that, we don\'t need pps at all.

I\'d rather see a system where you just have to pay a trainer (tria) to get the theoretical knowledge, without having to spend unnecessary pps.

What I do like in the current system is that you can\'t develop  a skill without trainers. It\'s a matter of taste, but I like the fact that you have to search for the right trainer. Training all on your own is not realistic too. Autodidiacts are rare, and the few there are always use books and therefor knowledge of others.

[Conchur]

I definitly agree that the system of training is not really logical.

Maybe there could be two ways to up skills...
1. You could use raw pp points just to up the skills (this is of course after the pp points have been divided into proper sections).
2. Well just like you can learn how to play the guitar by yourself, say your rich, you can also hire someone to get a better understanding of it faster.  However many people are still great at guitar even without a instructor, but it does take them alot more practice on their own.

Just a thought.

[Nikodemus]

It is so nice to see people agree in at least one thing
This matter is bugging me since months and so comes my proposition:
It is exactly this what Hitancrias has wrote. We don\'t need PP at all. We don\'t have to worry that eighter we have not enough money or not enough PP which is advantage. There is also no way we will train some skill doing somethink completly different.
Let\'s look at PP definition from players guide:

Progression Points can be used by the player to purchase training, special maneuvers, stat increases and so on. It\'s nothing more than a reflection of the experience you have gained.

We can same as good say character gets \"reflection of the experience\" in the process of practicing in the previous rank, just before the next rank training.

This will cause training of mages a lot more balanced comparing to fighters. As mage won\'t have to gather that much \"reflection of the experience\" as before. But still mages will ned a lot of money.

The stats would need to be developed in dfferent way as now, as i don\'t imagine someone just buying strenght agility or charisma just for money. It is wrong already so need to be changed anyway.

Last matter is, what about experience reward for quests? what will we get if not PP? I would propose some stats and skills increase, but how would that be done... People finish quests using different skills, so that would have to be dependent wich seem to be hard for me.
But still i don\'t like idea of gaining any kind of PP for doing quests, because in most causes we have more not spent PP than money, so it is like i earned somethink what will never help me anyway.

[hitancrias]

Originally posted by Nikodemus
Last matter is, what about experience reward for quests? what will we get if not PP?

Things like money, special items or access to new areas come into mind.

[Hatchnet]

Originally posted by hitancrias

Originally posted by Nikodemus
Last matter is, what about experience reward for quests? what will we get if not PP?

Things like money, special items or access to new areas come into mind.

Money, maby speacial items if they are more just for fun items and not crucial or important for game play.

One of the things I didn\'t like about RS was that you had to complete quests to get access to some rather large areas and important weapons and equipment.

While I will admit that this was not a problem for the majority; those roleplayers who would have gone against character do the quests where left out and givin a magor disadvantage.

[zanzibar]

How about this:


- eliminate the PP system
- instead, skills are advanced by using the skill
- training causes skills to advance faster
- however, advancement is not dependant on training




Yay or nay?