In the Tavern

[Zan]

I \'m going to ignore the not so friendly tone since it is probably based on a misunderstanding.

Originally posted by tefusang
The plaza is special because it is centrally located.

Close to the arena entrance, close to the blacksmith, close to the temple, close to the library neighbourhood, close to one of the sewer entrances, close to several trainers.

If I\'m coming into town, I almost have to pass thru the plaza to get to any of the interesting parts of town.

Exactly what I mean ... the plaza is like the busy crossroad of Yliakum. Already more than busy enough if you ask me. There already are two decent sized town areas outside the plaza and an extensive world outside of that. The towns are neglected though, all people do is walk past when they need to and gather at the plaza.
When I went against the idea of putting the tavern even closer to the plaza it was because I don\'t think the place should be so centralized in the first place. I \'d much rather see people gather all around town, groups here and there, people talking on the streets, resting infront of a house, sitting on a bench, playing games on the grassy area next to the temple, ... instead of flocking together on the plaza. Secondly  the tavern is more than close enough, it doesn\'t even take a minute for you to get there from harnquist\'s smithy. Putting it even closer would remove the atmosphere of taking a break from daily routine.

I don\'t want an elitist bar but I would like the tavern to be separated from your usual playing/leveling up routines. Just a gathering place for those who want to talk and relax and let the plaza be a gathering place for those with questions, goods to sell, searching for partners to hunt, ...

Oh and Nevhide ...

I can\'t believe you actually put \"get drunk\" and \"feel refreshed\" in the same sentence

[Manar]

In my opinion, the only reason the tavern is empty, is because it is empty. People drop in for a visit, see that there\'s no-one there, and leave again.  The only reason I started tending the bar is so that there would at least be someone in there, and thusly, some people would hang around a bit longer. And in the first week pretty much everybody commented they hadn\'t seen that many people in the tavern for months.

Having an NPC barkeeper isn\'t going to help people hang around much longer. Gimmicks like NPC\'s against who you can play games might help while people are curious about them, but probably not for long. The only reason most people will drop by is because they know, or at least hope, that other people will be there.

Ehm, well, that\'s what I think, anyway.

Edit: Must. Check. Speeling.

[Pip]

Originally posted by Zan
Don\'t take this the wrong way but I don\'t think this should be a wish addressed at the Devs. This is something the players themselves control and should fix. All the things you suggested, except for the minigames, can be provided by players and should be provided by players.

Why put a NPC that sells food behind the bar if you can get some food yourself and hop behind there?

Maybe do like me on occasion ... if you are gathered at the plaza with a lot of friends suggest that you all go to the tavern. Usually people will follow and someone will soon take over the role of barkeep.

Originally posted by Karyuu
Definitely agree with Zan on this one. It would be horribly boring with NPCs taking the bartender/serving girls/cleaners roles. There are so many wonderful people who take over and make things interesting, Maanar being the first to come to mind. This is what us players are here for, to populate the world and entertain each other. Many people have planned activities in the tavern before, such as storytelling events, and crowds often gather regardless of time or plans. The tavern may be empty for a few minutes, but then I find that it always fills up later, anyway.

I only suggested ONE NPC behind the bar and one or two others for mini-games. If mini-games can be implemented between players so much the better. How often have you walked into a pub/bar/inn with a bunch of mates and one of you had to pop behind the bar because there was no bartender??? Just because there is one NPC behind the bar doesn\'t stop players helping him/her out if they wish.

I have been to three parties at the tavern and it\'s great when it happens but every other time I\'ve been in there it has been dead as a doornail. When I have come across other players they have been dashing around, in or out or AFK. I don\'t get in game much because my real life is very demanding but when I do I would like to visit a tavern that looks and feels more real.

Originally posted by Manar
In my opinion, the only reason the tavern is empty, is because it is empty. People drop in for a visit, see that there\'s no-one there, and leave again.  The only reason I started tending the bar is so that there would at least be someone in there, and thusly, some people would hang around a bit longer. And in the first week pretty much everybody commented they hadn\'t seen that many people in the tavern for months.

Having an NPC barkeeper isn\'t going to help people hang around much longer. Gimmicks like NPC\'s against who you can play games might help while people are curious about them, but probably not for long. The only reason most people will drop by is because they know, or at least hope, that other people will be there.

I disagree, I think that when people can go in and buy a drink at any time they will hang around long enough to be joined by others and hence you will get little groups gathering. You said yourself, that you only stood in so there would be someone there and that it got busier when you were doing the bar. What if you could get information/quests from the barkeeper too.

[Nevhide]

I still think there should be a purpose in visiting the inn. The innkeeper could tell news. And probably you could tell news to the innkeeper he could later tell others and leave messages to other players (sort of a message board). These /tells are not very realistic are they? Instead if you get parted in the dungeons you could leave a message to a friend with the innkeeper. Something like \"Hey Karyuu, lost ya at the gents\' last night. Old Barli here has a sack with ur share in his keeping and let\'s meet here on 6pm Friday\":)
If we eliminate /tells the tavern could naturally become one of the popular meeting places around. The market place in the eastern part of the city now deserted could become the only allowed place for auctions. We have a number of GMs hanging around with no clear purpose. What if they could fine you if you violate some rules? For bad language, auctioning on the plaza and so on.. Anything from 10 to 500 trias e.g. at theit discretion.
This way you can even try to bribe them:) If you don\'t have enough you can be jailed till ur friends collect the money or you can even beg for money from behind the bars:)

[Manar]

Originally posted by Pip
I disagree, I think that when people can go in and buy a drink at any time they will hang around long enough to be joined by others and hence you will get little groups gathering.

Originally posted by Nevhide
I still think there should be a purpose in visiting the inn. The innkeeper could tell news. And probably you could tell news to the innkeeper he could later tell others and leave messages to other players (sort of a message board).

I still don\'t think it would make people stay all that much longer if there are still no players around, even if they could buy a real drink. It\'s not much fun to be drinking something with only an NPC around.

Hmm, that sounds rather negative. I certainly have no objections to an NPC bartender, and especially combined with messageboard like things, it would be fun and very useful. It would also make more people stop by, and probably more often too, so the chances of bumping into someone else would go up, and that\'d be a good improvement already. I just don\'t think they\'d stay much longer if there still aren\'t other players there.

As I said before, the big point is having people there, so others will also stay. A player bartender is one way of doing that. Once there is a crowd, an NPC bartender would be quite sufficient.

[Drey]

an NPC barkeep... to buy \'real\' drinks from, the thing is they arent real so i dont see how that would help much.

like the others have said a player acting as barkeep is much better, someone to talk to blah blha.

and,

I still think there should be a purpose in visiting the inn.

there is... to see people there.


the problem with the tavern at the moment is that many people are pre occupied with stabbing.

and about people standing in the plaza, because that is ewhere the GMs spend most of their time which makes sense because like someone said in a previous post its pretty much central... except for akkaio but that is pretty much deadsville anyway, but i am usuall making a point to drop in on all areas when i am online.

[Valbrandr]

I am against NPC barkeeps.. that takes away one more RP job for someone (Me ).. I want to leave open what we can.

[Neryam]

But.. you.. don\'t have beer to sell!

or wine

[Nevhide]

What would be an incentive for a human bartender character to stand there for hours and talk? This wouldn\'t be much fun for long without some real economy behind the scenes. And this is quite difficult to implement.
I would suggest as a temporary solution for a human to be able to control some ingame NPCs just to break the monotony around here. E.g. rightclick on Harnquist and select control. If the position hasn\'t been taken by another human player your main character remains standing next to the spot and you have time to amaze other players going to the library instead of the tavern. Basic merchant functions would still be provided by the game engine. When you get tired you come back and resume control of your main character. I think it would be fun for some including me to control monsters as well. Like to become a one-eyed rat, get out of the sewers and make some stir on the plaza.

[Neryam]

THat WOULD be very interesting! But it could lead to abuse, someone takes control of harnquist and walks him into a hidden corner of hydlaa and switch back

[Pip]

Originally posted by Drey
an NPC barkeep... to buy \'real\' drinks from, the thing is they arent real so i dont see how that would help much.

like the others have said a player acting as barkeep is much better, someone to talk to blah blha.

The point is an NPC would be there all the time whereas players are only there some of the time. And when there is a gathering only those lucky enough to have found a mug can put a \"beer\" in their hand.

And...

Originally posted by Valbrandr
I am against NPC barkeeps.. that takes away one more RP job for someone (Me ).. I want to leave open what we can.

Not at all, there would be nothing to stop anyone who wishes, to help out the NPC .  Wouldn\'t you like to be able to buy drinks from him/her and sell them on to customers? (You might even get tipped)

Originally posted by Nevhide
I still think there should be a purpose in visiting the inn. The innkeeper could tell news. And probably you could tell news to the innkeeper he could later tell others and leave messages to other players (sort of a message board).

Yes, good idea.

Originally posted by Manar
As I said before, the big point is having people there, so others will also stay. A player bartender is one way of doing that. Once there is a crowd, an NPC bartender would be quite sufficient.

I agree but how often do you see someone in there playing bartender? I have twice found a player behind the bar but apparantly AFK.  

Originally posted by Neryam
THat WOULD be very interesting! But it could lead to abuse, someone takes control of harnquist and walks him into a hidden corner of hydlaa and switch back

Harnquist already goes on walkabout, he has been seen in the tavern!

[Karyuu]

I still think it\'s far more interesting to have player bartenders than NPCs :/ I guarantee that you will not have as much fun interacting with the NPC as you might with someone like Maanar, or any other individual that decides to hop behind the bar one day. I know that in my case, definitely, an NPC will not make me want to stick around. Unless NPC communication reaches unbelievably complex levels (har har), they will always remain another decorative element upon the landscape.

Way, waaaay against this idea.

[Manar]

I never see nobody playing bartender, but that\'s just because I play the bartender.

[Karyuu]

Luckily, not 24/7 :P

I\'ve seen my share of well-mannered barkeeps as well as amusing folks who didn\'t know what they were doing at all, as well as drunks who hogged the drinks as much as passed them out. I would hate to see an NPC take such opportunities away.

[Pip]

Originally posted by Karyuu
I still think it\'s far more interesting to have player bartenders than NPCs :/ I guarantee that you will not have as much fun interacting with the NPC as you might with someone like Maanar, or any other individual that decides to hop behind the bar one day. I know that in my case, definitely, an NPC will not make me want to stick around. Unless NPC communication reaches unbelievably complex levels (har har), they will always remain another decorative element upon the landscape.

Way, waaaay against this idea.

Originally posted by Karyuu
I\'ve seen my share of well-mannered barkeeps as well as amusing folks who didn\'t know what they were doing at all, as well as drunks who hogged the drinks as much as passed them out. I would hate to see an NPC take such opportunities away.

I say again:

Originally posted by Pip
The point is an NPC would be there all the time whereas players are only there some of the time. And when there is a gathering only those lucky enough to have found a mug can put a \"beer\" in their hand.

And...

Originally posted by Valbrandr
I am against NPC barkeeps.. that takes away one more RP job for someone (Me ).. I want to leave open what we can.

Not at all, there would be nothing to stop anyone who wishes, to help out the NPC .  Wouldn\'t you like to be able to buy drinks from him/her and sell them on to customers? (You might even get tipped)

I really don\'t see why you object so strongly to an NPC behind the bar. It won\'t stop anyone having fun roleplaying assistant barkeeper, waiter/waitress, cleaner, assistant chef, landlord or anything else they can think of.
/me shrugs, perplexed.

Originally posted by Manar
I never see nobody playing bartender, but that\'s just because I play the bartender.

And I bet there\'s noone there when you arrive.