An Invitation to all Guild Leaders

[zanzibar]

Originally posted by r.guppy
I must thank you for being honest about why you were not on line.

Honest?  Why would I lie about it?  lol

[r.guppy]

Quote:
Originally posted by r.guppy
I must thank you for being honest about why you were not on line.


Quote:

Honest? Why would I lie about it? lol

 I was not implying you would, you did not have to say at all, so was being polite and complementing you on your honesty. )

[zanzibar]

Originally posted by r.guppy
Quote:
Originally posted by r.guppy
I must thank you for being honest about why you were not on line.


Quote:

Honest? Why would I lie about it? lol

 I was not implying you would, you did not have to say at all, so was being polite and complementing you on your honesty. )

You still don\'t understand.... then again you don\'t know the circumstances of my banning, so I\'ll let it rest.

[r.guppy]

You look for what is not there in me i speak plane english, because i am english, so if leave it be you wont then so be it. )

[Askr]

Originally posted by r.guppy
If there was not a problem then why is this even being talked about i remind you sir of one of your guild rules.
To be a Guild Knight is to help where help is needed, (to support good causes )and to bring even the lowliest farmhand into a person worthy to be King. To be a Guild Knight is to become a person who anyone can trust, anyone can talk to, anyone can look up to, anyone can join.
(That is our dream and goal, and may it be upheld.)  )

I am not sure what being a Guild Knight, or the goals of the Guild Knight, has to do with the first question in your post.

As far as the goals of the Guild Knights are concerned, I uphold them consistently.  In addition to those goals, I have my own code that has been passed down in my family from generation to generation (IC) that I also uphold.  So there is absolutely no reason for you to remind me of what my guild\'s goals are.

All I see out of this is the same nonsense: \'We can\'t RP it and it interferes with our normal RPing, so lets make rules so that we don\'t have to deal with it.\'  Sangwa proposed an excellent idea, it was basically glossed over in favor of creating rules.  No more discussion about it.

Right now, since this is all directed at guilds, the only people that will be affected by it are guild members.  It is absolutely meaningless for anyone else.  Create RP Laws and they affect everyone.  The punishment for breaking RP Laws can be met out upon anyone -- guild member or not.  The evil and chaotic guilds have something to rally against.  The lawful and good guilds have something to support.  The neutral guilds know where to keep balance.  And it is all done in RP, which is the whole point of this game.

[r.guppy]

I quote from your guild rules again if i may, (to support good causes).
 Or are you saying this is not for the good. I also say to you ask your guild leader his thoughts on this matter sir. may i ask do you obey your guild rules? This is not meant as a insult just wondering.

[Askr]

Originally posted by r.guppy
I quote from your guild rules again if i may, (to support good causes).
 Or are you saying this is not for the good. I also say to you ask your guild leader his thoughts on this matter sir. may i ask do you obey your guild rules? This is not meant as a insult just wondering.

Janner for a while you were making sense.  Now you are really starting to fail to do so.

As has been stated... wait... I shall quote for you exactly....

Originally posted by Bereror
But the rules here are not for RP -- they are for players (or actors) behind these guilds and characters.

This quote was a few posts up and the bold is mine obviously.  It is a point that has been made consistently.

As these rules have absolutely no RP value whatsoever, your point is moot.  IC my character would have no understanding of this debate.  OOC my guild\'s alignment does not matter, therefore whether I think this is good or not is irrelevent.  Make this about laws (as I have so many times suggested) and then we can discuss what my character would do.

As far as my guilds rules are concerned, perhaps you would like to find a concrete list of GK rules... I\'d be interested in seeing them .

As far as, my guild leader, well as you are quite aware ... and I am sure everyone else is ...  Sirunie has not made an appearance on this thread.

Again, what any of this has to do  with anything, Janner, I am entirely not certain.

[r.guppy]

Chat between Sirunie and me. Sun 09-Oct-2005 12:42:22 Janner

(13:45:11) Sirunie says: yeh
(13:45:31) Sirunie says: You are a good adversary Janner
(13:45:44) Janner says: try to be
(13:45:52) Sirunie says: You are
(13:46:34) Sirunie says: i have dueled to many times I have minus 1029 duel points now LOL
(13:46:46) Janner says: getting pip to do post about rules for DUILS IN GUILD SECTION SO WE ALL AGREE ON WHOT IS BEST
(13:47:06) Janner says: opps caps sorry
(13:47:21) Sirunie says: What is agreed upon I will abide by
(13:47:59) Janner says: the idea being it will help ease the tension on duels
(13:48:19) Sirunie says: sounds good Janner

 So as you can see for yourself.
 )

[Askr]

Originally posted by r.guppy
Chat between Sirunie and me. Sun 09-Oct-2005 12:42:22 Janner

(13:45:11) Sirunie says: yeh
(13:45:31) Sirunie says: You are a good adversary Janner
(13:45:44) Janner says: try to be
(13:45:52) Sirunie says: You are
(13:46:34) Sirunie says: i have dueled to many times I have minus 1029 duel points now LOL
(13:46:46) Janner says: getting pip to do post about rules for DUILS IN GUILD SECTION SO WE ALL AGREE ON WHOT IS BEST
(13:47:06) Janner says: opps caps sorry
(13:47:21) Sirunie says: What is agreed upon I will abide by
(13:47:59) Janner says: the idea being it will help ease the tension on duels
(13:48:19) Sirunie says: sounds good Janner

 So as you can see for yourself.
 )

You are joking right?  Once again you have failed to clarify yourself.  You have immediately brought IC into OOC and attempted to mix everything up.  Now onto your most recent post:

Did Sirunie read the rules or was he just agreeing without any prior knowledge?  Did you bother to make sure that he was aware of the entire discussion?  Do you bother to ask whether he has had time to seriously contemplate such a decision or whether he brought the discussion up with his guild?

I know you desperately want this, Janner.  It is blatantly obvous.  But, just because you do, does not mean it is a good thing.

Since you are hung up about it.  Here is my issue from an in-game POV:  

\"I belong to a good guild, that is neither lawful nor chaotic.  Therefore I do not see these (OOC) rules as being beneficial to the greater good (which is all that matters) because they are a way of limiting the power of good people to rightly defend themselves from the actions of the evil and destructive forces that plague our world and society.

\"We can in no way hinder the freedom of our good citizens in an attempt to rein in the evils of our wonderful community

\"These rules appear to me to be the corrupted attempt at control, by those who erroneously believe they are in some way at risk from the less orderly actions of others.  It is also obvious that this was never a well thought out stance and as such will lead to the greater risk of overzealousnes and fanaticism.

\"I see these rules, whether or not they were originally felt to be good, as the doorway to a great evil in this world.  Because of the attempt to force another under the yoke of the few, they are in no way for the greater good and therefore I must oppose such heinous actions.

\"To see so many good guilds succombing to the corruption of power has made me quite concerned with the path that our community is heading down.  I can only hope that we are not thrust into the realm of tyranny and domination because of erroneous decisions hastily made.\"

Back to OOC:  It is obvious that you have not thought about this enough, Janner.  As can be easily demonstrated, regardless of whether or not you think it is for the greater good, other good aligned people can view it as a great evil.  Getting a spur of the moment decision from a guild leader who has not been active in the discussion does not validate your stance.  Although your fervor, does validate the above IC stance my character could take.

[r.guppy]

Sorry read rules before they are posted or even disused or even ink dry, desperately want this? were did that come from, there is a vote open to all, so every one gets to have there say, the log was to prove i had spoken to him and his words \"What is agreed upon I will abide by \"
 Control? Why and how? I have a guild of individuals; if i was a control freak why not start there have a guild of mindless robots.
 Well thought out? then why bother even asking anyone their thoughts just post my idea and ignore comments from others.
 Deciding on rules for a duel evil ?.[\"I see these rules, whether or not they were originally felt to be good, as the doorway to a great evil in this world. Because of the attempt to force another under the yoke of the few, they are in no way for the greater good and therefore I must oppose such heinous actions.] You lost me.
 20 Posts in this thread from me so think i have taken part.

[Askr]

Originally posted by r.guppy
Sorry read rules before they are posted or even disused or even ink dry, desperately want this? were did that come from, there is a vote open to all, so every one gets to have there say, the log was to prove i had spoken to him and his words \"What is agreed upon I will abide by \"
 Control? Why and how? I have a guild of individuals; if i was a control freak why not start there have a guild of mindless robots.
 Well thought out? then why bother even asking anyone their thoughts just post my idea and ignore comments from others.
 Deciding on rules for a duel evil ?.[\"I see these rules, whether or not they were originally felt to be good, as the doorway to a great evil in this world. Because of the attempt to force another under the yoke of the few, they are in no way for the greater good and therefore I must oppose such heinous actions.] You lost me.
 20 Posts in this thread from me so think i have taken part.

I lost you?  lol

Okay, after having reread this several times I think I have deciphered your post.  Of course I could be mistaken, it is rather difficult to tell.

Yes \'desperately want this\', you brought this same nonsense up as a response to me in another thread.  You have brought it up again through Pip in this thread.  Yes, desperately want this.  There have been a great many posts that seriously doubt the functionality of these non-RP rules with just as many posts proposing better RP methods but instead of taking those points and running, you have consistently brought it back to these rules.  If you didn\'t it wouldn\'t be an issue, it would be left alone and all would go on as it has been.

The vote came about after the thread, not before.  If you had done it before there would have been a chance for people to decide whether or not rules would be beneficial and then and only then work together to decide upon those rules.  Not the other way around.  Likewise the poll had but two options, support of these rules or not support them.  There was no option for OOC rules vs. IG rules, or anything else.  In my view I have been forced to choose the lesser of two evils.

Control is easy enough.  Rules are meant to control something.  Prevention of chaos is controlling the tendency towards chaos.  Preventing duelling in the plaza is controlling the manner in which duelling happens.  Yes, control.  The fact that you question this is a bit perplexing to me.

I\'m not quite sure how I lost you.  I was farely to the point in my IC post.  I can only assume that you chose not to read the entire message because you were in a rush to comment.

I am glad you had spoke to him, but that was not upon this forum.  Sirunie has put no input into this thread, nor has he presented the information to his guild in any manner.  I place little weight in the log, it means squat to me.  Although you obviously place great credence in logs, since you so often offer them up for everyone\'s perusal.

The fact that you have 20 posts in this thread means about as much as the log you presented.  How many of those posts were under 4 sentences?

[r.guppy]

The light goes on in my head, your beef is not with what i do i think but with me, as you brought it up the thread you talked about is what this is about.
 I stand by what i said in that thread, and ask you did you ask them if it was true, because if such was said about me or a member of my guild i am shore I would have been asked.
 And yes i am short in what i type as i fell no need to do a paragraph were a sentence will do.
 Ask a GM if you are allowed to fight in the plaza, the answer is no, not my rule.
 This debate on rules for guilds to follow is meant to clarify how a dual is conducted not stop them, as a knight you of all people should understand the need for a common agreement on how this is done.

[zanzibar]

Originally posted by r.guppy
The light goes on in my head, your beef is not with what i do i think but with me

That\'s weak.  Also, it shows that you don\'t truly understand the criticisms people have of your idea.....

[Askr]

Originally posted by r.guppy
The light goes on in my head, your beef is not with what i do i think but with me, as you brought it up the thread you talked about is what this is about.
 I stand by what i said in that thread, and ask you did you ask them if it was true, because if such was said about me or a member of my guild i am shore I would have been asked.
 And yes i am short in what i type as i fell no need to do a paragraph were a sentence will do.
 Ask a GM if you are allowed to fight in the plaza, the answer is no, not my rule.
 This debate on rules for guilds to follow is meant to clarify how a dual is conducted not stop them, as a knight you of all people should understand the need for a common agreement on how this is done.

My beef isn\'t with you.  The only beef I have is with all the non-RP elements that are thrust in everyone\'s face in this game -- by players and GMs alike.  You don\'t have to like that, but the first thing I saw when I was looking into this game was how it was dedicated to role-playing.  If you can\'t role-play something as simple as random duels or outbursts, then you are a rather poor role-player.

I know the other thread is what this is about.  Which is my whole point you have asked Pip on  your behalf to create an entire set of rules to validate a point you failed to make in another thread.  That point was erroneously made before, and now is even more so.  Not my problem, that was your choice to do.  You were not in the right then, you are not now.. no matter how much support you get.

There is no need for a common agreement.  No one needs to agree on anything in life.  That is the luxury we have as humans.  That is even more the point in a game as we are no longer limited by the basic constraints that as humans we are limited.  Your choice to not accept this does not necessitate a rule to make the RP world conform to your ideals.

As far as your comment on asking a GM, you are grasping at straws.  This is not about just the Plaza or anything else, your rules are about conduct.  How you have to ask, what plans have to be made, who all has to be in agreement.

[sirunie]

I enjoy dueling in the plaza,please dont take it away. ;(