Please knock some sense in this man. I urge you.

[sesmi]

http://www.michnews.com/artman/publish/article_9880.shtml

Email: joseph_swank@yahoo.com

Reading it will explain its self.

[Karyuu]

As if sending the guy emails would change his beliefs at all ;) Some people are just like that, but they seem to be much more numerous in older generations than in the new.

Sad, regardless.

[steuben]

nah. they\'re just more vocal.

old, new they\'re all the same, and just as self contrictory.

\"i love religious freedom, but these cults have got to go.\"

[zanzibar]

Listen, with this guy and all other fanatics, you can\'t change their mind by disagreeing with them.  He\'ll only change his ways if he has some sort of life-changing event.

[JellyWerker]

If you read the religious texts of islam, you will see that that that is basically how it works. Islam is not a tolerant religion, true many Christians aren\'t tolerant, but Christianity itself does not preach to not be tolerant, like islam does. Islam present itself as the way, everyone else just needs to be destroyed to make the world a better place for muslims.

I\'ll definately be posting more in this topic as it turns into another political head bashing thread were no one sees anyone elses point of view, belisves in the ultimate rightiousness of their post, and flames everyone else

[Valbrandr]

Yes very sad... ignorant peopel bah ... But yes it does matter which generation you are from.  If you grew up in a generation that tended to be more racist (my grandfather) I would say these people tend to be more racist either way.. because people tend to do what is popular.. and if being racist is popular.. well you know the rest.  Luckily for me we are moving a little more left and a little more left (liberal of course )... This guy is the reason why more and more people are turning away from organized religion... and oddly enough he doesnt see that either

Edit: haha Jellywerker beat me to the thread .. finally we meet again

[JellyWerker]

Indeed we should jsut make a post and keep adding controversial topics to it, it will be good debate practice

10 years later: and today we have JellyWerker and Valbrandr facing off in the presidential debate...

[sesmi]

Originally posted by JellyWerker
If you read the religious texts of islam, you will see that that that is basically how it works. Islam is not a tolerant religion, true many Christians aren\'t tolerant, but Christianity itself does not preach to not be tolerant, like islam does. Islam present itself as the way, everyone else just needs to be destroyed to make the world a better place for muslims.

I\'ll definately be posting more in this topic as it turns into another political head bashing thread were no one sees anyone elses point of view, belisves in the ultimate rightiousness of their post, and flames everyone else

\"O mankind! We created you from a single soul, male and female, and made you into nations and tribes, so that you may come to know one another. Truly, the most honored of you in God\'s sight is the greatest of you in piety. God is All-Knowing, All Aware (49-13)\"

\"Islam sees a woman, whether single or married, as an individual in her own right, with the right to own and dispose of her property and earnings. A marriage dowry is given by the groom to the bride for her own personal use, and she keeps her own family name rather than taking her husband\'s.\"

Examples of the Prophet`s sayings

    The Prophet said:

    \'God has no mercy on one who has no mercy for others.\'

    \'None of you truly believes until he wishes for his brother what he wishes for himself.\'

    \'He who eats his fill while his neighbor goes without food is not a believer. \'

    \'The truthful and trusty businessman is associated with the prophets the saints, and the martyrs.\'

    \'Powerful is not he who knocks the other down, indeed powerful is he who controls himself in a fit of anger. \'

    \'God does not judge according to your bodies and appearances but He scans your hearts and looks into your deeds.\'

    \'A man walking along a path felt very thirsty. Reaching a well he descended into it, drank his fill and came up. Then he saw a dog with its tongue hanging out, trying to lick up mud to quench its thirst. The man saw that the dog was feeling the same thirst as he had felt so he went down into the well again and filled his shoe with water and gave the dog a drink. God forgave his sins for this action.\' The Prophet was asked: \'Messenger of God, are we rewarded for kindness towards animals?\' He said, \'There is a reward for kindness to every living thing.\'

    From the hadith collections of Bukhari, Muslim, Tirmidhi and Bayhaqi

[Karyuu]

We all know how religious debates end up on here, right? Nonexistant :)

Let\'s keep this in mind before you go all \"RAAGH!\" on each other.

[Valbrandr]

***Val chews on Karyuu

\"Raaaaaagh\"

No I can play nice.  That sounds like a good idea Jellywerker... let me just get out my Koran and a few book on the Crusades and Ill be good to go .

[JellyWerker]

cool valbrandr

Sesmi: According to what you said there are so few true followers then. :/ like all seven of them, somewheres in remote india.

[JellyWerker]

It\'s good to see this didn\'t turn into a huge flame-fest.

Val: Wanna make set up a rule system for a debate thread? Organization is a good thing!

[Induane]

A rules system would be neat - I hadn\'t thought about it - I\'m not Val but how about:

1.) No personal attacks
2.) Stay on topic - other topics are only permited as they pertain to your point.
3.) err somthing - I\'m  no good at this.

Anyhoo,

If you read the religious texts of islam, you will see that that that is basically how it works. Islam is not a tolerant religion, true many Christians aren\'t tolerant, but Christianity itself does not preach to not be tolerant, like islam does. Islam present itself as the way, everyone else just needs to be destroyed to make the world a better place for muslims.

hmmm I don\'t know that much but every religion has parts that might be considered extreme now - Christianity is the same way.

\"And [Joshua\'s army] utterly destroyed all that was in the city, both man and woman, young and old, and ox, and sheep, and ass, with the edge of the sword. [...] [Joshua] left none remaining, but utterly destroyed all that breathed, as the LORD God of Israel commanded.\"  (Joshua 6:21 and 10:40)

\"Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace but a sword.\"  (Jesus according to Matthew 10:34, KJV)

\"But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.\"  (Jesus according to Luke 19:27, KJV)

\"O daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy shall he be, that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us. Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.\"  (Psalms 137:8-9, KJV)

Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.\"  (Numbers 31:7-18, KJV)

Wow this one is really nice - kill all those who have had sex with a man but save the virgins for yourself. Really pleasant.

The point I\'m trying to make is not that Christianity is evil - the point I\'m trying to make is that all religions have parts of their religions that aren\'t that nice.  Remember that before anyone starts chastizing another religion you have to realize that your religion is probabily has undesirable parts as well.  I mean it not as an insult but instead to put things in perspective.

[JellyWerker]

True, but how does that apply to today and what the average christian does in contrast with many muslims?

Btw, nice ruleset Valbrandr and I seem to have an unwritten ruleset between us

[Valbrandr]

Sure ... we need to come up some rules for future fighting, scratching and biting.. and I still want to debate on this thread but I havent had the time to pull out texts from here and there.  But we have to stress no personal attacks.. only attack ideas.  If not they will close our thread again .  But about this topid, I just dont see many differences in tolerance between Christians and Muslims... if you look at our bible, there is enough there to basically say someone who is not Christian will end up in hell. Though, 1200 years ago or so Islam was considered a Convert by the Sword religion, today It is the Christians constantly at my door .. Maybe how the Koran is written is more intolerant, but for one it depends on the people and how \"the word\" is interpreted.  As evangelistical (if it is a word ) Christians are they tend to be more of an annoyance to me.. and I have been one for 15 some odd years (a christian that is not an Evangelist).  In truth I think all Organized religion has alot of problems.