A way to prevent powerlevelling and to encourage specialization.

[AER]

I dunno, maybe it would be cool if the stats all followed sort of a proportional code thing, so that maybe 1, 2, or 3 stats were pretty high, then the rest were in the middle, then like 2 or 3 were bad. It would introduce a new strategic element, recognising a foe\'s strengths and weaknesses, and exploiting them. It would also open up new ideas for starting guilds, because people might form a guild based on their stats, and what they\'re good at in the game, rather than more what they enjoy. Of course, it wouldn\'t change anything that exists right now, it would just make the game more distinctive (I hope they don\'t use my idea, I was counting on it for a project of my own).

[tefusang]

Originally posted by Draklar
Not by definition:

Powerleveling - Playing the game with focus on finding the fastest and most efficient way to raise in level.

That doesn\'t exist if your progress is same no matter what you do.
You solely would decide what this progress will be aimed for.

People can abuse that too, i.e. staying logged in all night.

[zanzibar]

OK, obviously there\'s a lot of ideas under all of this.

There\'s stratification, which means different people are at different levels of ability.  This is a good thing, right?

And there\'s specialization, which is a term people understand, and the community also thinks it\'s a good thing.

If we limit the level of mastery all individuals can get in a particular skill, then we\'ve done nothing to encourage specialization and we\'ve done something to hurt stratification.

However, if we limit the number of skills all individuals can gain mastery in, we encourage specialization and we increase stratification.  In a given skill, instead of having everyone at the top or bottom, most people will be in the middle with a few at the top or bottom.

This is of course everyone doesn\'t choose swords or daggers as their primary skill!  So my idea can only work once crafting and magic is working.

[Cha0s]

[hijack]
I told you: the way to stop power-leveling is making the fastest method of advancement role-playing. Sure, you can power-level, but only in-character.
And don\'t ask how here please, I detailed it in \"GM vs. DM\" and \"RPing Planeshift: How to Enforce It\" which I wrote... a while ago. I don\'t want to do any more hijacking, so...
[/hijack]

Anyway, if you look at it logically, the if there is no way to stop a player from doing the thing that makes him/her advance as fast as possible and the goal is to make this player act in-character instead of trying to advance out-of-character, then logically, make the method of advancement acting in-character.

[zanzibar]

Originally posted by Cha0s
[hijack]
I told you: the way to stop power-leveling is making the fastest method of advancement role-playing. Sure, you can power-level, but only in-character.
And don\'t ask how here please, I detailed it in \"GM vs. DM\" and \"RPing Planeshift: How to Enforce It\" which I wrote... a while ago. I don\'t want to do any more hijacking, so...
[/hijack]

Anyway, if you look at it logically, the if there is no way to stop a player from doing the thing that makes him/her advance as fast as possible and the goal is to make this player act in-character instead of trying to advance out-of-character, then logically, make the method of advancement acting in-character.

i)  Not realistic.  One does not increase ability in swords by chatting in the tavern.

ii)  Not accurate.  GMs can\'t be in all places at once.  Some people are quiet by nature.  Some people RP through guild chat and tells rather than the public chat.

iii)  Inorganic.  Too open to favouritism.  Advancement must be in the mechanics of the game, and not in the hands of GMs who are busy enough as it is.


Ok, now back to the original subject....

[Cha0s]

Originally posted by zanzibar
i)  Not realistic.  One does not increase ability in swords by chatting in the tavern.

First, did I say that role-playing didn\'t involve killing things? That was rhetorical: I didn\'t. Second, are you saying that it makes sense that you increase your cartography skill by killing things? Or your Azure magic skill by mining?

ii)  Not accurate.  GMs can\'t be in all places at once.  Some people are quiet by nature.  Some people RP through guild chat and tells rather than the public chat.

That\'s why I advocate for the creation of a new bigger team in addition to the current GMs. As for role-playing in guild chat and tells, that\'s not acceptable role-play. Unless there is a reason no one can hear what you are saying, say what you\'re saying in public chat. In addition, these new GMs should be able to hear both guild and group chat. As for quiet people, they can role-play without words. Emotes can be an excellent form or role-play. If you mean people who are naturally quiet in-real-life, then, I understand that they may be shy or simply quiet, but if they can\'t talk, they can\'t role-play, and Planeshift is centered on role-play.

iii)  Inorganic.  Too open to favouritism.  Advancement must be in the mechanics of the game, and not in the hands of GMs who are busy enough as it is.

Yes, there may be favoritism, but no one will advance without role-play, and, in the end, I don\'t think that favoritism will play that big a role. The new team would be well-trained and everyone would receive rewards for participating in role-play events. Some people might get extra rewards for extraordinarily good role-play--this is where the favoritism might come in--but these wouldn\'t make that much of a difference.

Ok, now back to the original subject....

If you attack my idea, you can\'t expect me not to respond.

[Walugo Khualin]

There are 2 things wrong with this system currently, you get \"exp\" for just killing anything and the exp/learning is visible

If the Exp/learning was invisible people would have to actually see from results if they were becoming better in what they were doing, and they couldn\'t just spam all their points in whatever. They\'d have to actually practice it, and be \"better than they were\" for it to increase.

Secondly the Exp should not come from something you already know how to do, it should come from something new, or an improvement. Or Killing something Faster than you ever did before, or a Tougher monster than ever before.

::Edit:: As for grinding to powerlvl, you make monsters Harder/lifethreatening and make so you must actually struggle to kill something to get experience. Also putting them spread out in a field wouldn\'t hurt, and having dynamic spawn locations is good too.

[Nikodemus]

From all of the ideas Chaos seems best, although not perfect.
All the other ideas are unnatural
\"System message: Your brain has ran out of space, please insert new one to save skill progress data.\" (too bad brain isn\'t like harddrive )
Or
\"Your ability to learn has been stopped for the duration of this day. Do you want to spent your exp on skills?\" A Character has been fighting all the day and he increases his alchemy, crafting and mining skills.

At finish the ideas not only decrease PL, but also decrease our abilities and RP which use game mechamics at most. It hurts realism and in effect the tales of different content have almost nothing to do with this what has really happened (even these writtings which are supposed to tell whole truth). You simply can\'t describe ooc mess with ic words.
If implement this, why not implement features like:
Feature: You can\'t go upstairs with equiped sword.
Reason: To decrease people running around in towns with equiped weapons.

[Induane]

How long can a powerleveler really stay interested in a game like this - or any rpg really? What - a few months - obsessive ones will PL for a long time before getting bored with nothing else to do.  The fun in these games is the interaction between players, not npc\'s so there isn\'t much to hold them in.  I\'d say, let them do their thing - some will exploit - but they won\'t be around much to use them after a while.  They are a natural occurance in games, so just let them run their course.  Don\'t punish them or make it harder for them, just keep the game RP oriented and the game will always be fun.

[Seytra]

Originally posted by Induane
How long can a powerleveler really stay interested in a game like this - or any rpg really? What - a few months - obsessive ones will PL for a long time before getting bored with nothing else to do.  The fun in these games is the interaction between players, not npc\'s so there isn\'t much to hold them in.  I\'d say, let them do their thing - some will exploit - but they won\'t be around much to use them after a while.  They are a natural occurance in games, so just let them run their course.  Don\'t punish them or make it harder for them, just keep the game RP oriented and the game will always be fun.

The problem is that 1) there will always be a fresh supply of PLs to replace those who leave and 2) while they are there, they will flood the economy, playerbased or not, with the PL\'d items and money generated by it. Thus, they do directly hurt everyone by essentially driving inflation.

[Zan]

Originally posted by zanzibar
Right now, a character can potentially max out every skill in the game.  Instead, make it so that a character can only have X number of skills at level Y or above.  That way, it won\'t be a community of supermen who are masters of all trades.

This will only change the manner of powerleveling, not stop it. Instead of maxing out skills alone people are going to increase their levels so they can max out skills.

Don\'t try to remove powerlevelling, it can\'t be done. Try to improve RPing by making it fun, entertaining and maybe even rewarding.

[SeinTex]

what about setting the max on the sum of levels in a group of several skills rather than on a skill ?
I\'m being unclear. let\'s say that instead of having a max for crystal way and a max for dark way (or in adition of that) there would be a max for crystal+dark magic ways. the more you develop one, the less you can develop the other... that would stop people to become super heros.

[Karyuu]

I think there need to be people who are exceptional at something or other. How boring would it be to have everyone with approximately the same proficiency in something? ;) I don\'t think such limits are a good idea.

[zanzibar]

Originally posted by Karyuu
I think there need to be people who are exceptional at something or other. How boring would it be to have everyone with approximately the same proficiency in something? I don\'t think such limits are a good idea.

Not limits really..... let\'s say you\'re training ten skills.  They all get to a certain level.... then 5 of them get past level 20, and all of a sudden the other 5 can\'t get past level 20..... then 3 of them get past level 35, and all of a sudden the other 2 can\'t get past level 35.... then 1 or 2 of them get past level 50, and so on.

[Karyuu]

What prevents players from powerleveling to level 20 or 35 or 50? As has been stated before, even if players have -one- skill to \"level\" in, none of these ideas would stop them from enjoying leveling it in a grinding, OOC manner.