Thieves

[wiggyworm]

hummm i think that thieves should be allowed to steal from players but also i think that there should be limits.

A good idea would to be that players sign up to be allowed to steal/be stolen from and become player killers, at the same time you can only steal from other player killers and kill other player killers .

I also think that thieves should only be allowed to steal a certain amount a week/day whatever or that they get taxed on what they steal (although im not sure who would taz them etc or who the money would go to for that matter :rolleyes: ) what you guys think anyway? ?(  :]

[Temrus]

I definetely think that thiefs should have alot of abilitites and beable to pickpocket pc\'s and poison food and everything. That being because i am alwaysa theif in any game i can BUT.......

   If thiefs can do everything and get away easily it will totally ruin the game plus it wont be as much fun for us theifs. I enjoy running away. So we could limit thiefs to only being able to pickpocket items of a certain weight as it is unrealistic to steal a halberd or double handed broad sword. However a thief could steal daggers and valuable Gem stones and coins ofcourse. also maybe you could have anti-thief shops (think of a better name some other time) which sell maybe small traps for putting in pockets this could reduce pickpocketing. Also i think the town gaurd idea would be good having npc\'s and things come after you. You could also have wanted posters for known thiefs and a price for there capture this would be a good way to earn money for thief killers. i think these ideas would balance out the advantages and disadvantages well.

 Also thiefs dont neccesarily work together you could hire thefs or assaisns to kill or steal valuble objects of other pc\'s making the game much more exciting.

[Temrus]

Oh yeh and another thing we could have special doorways and storeroooms or safes if you want to call them that available to build in houses. You could have the owner of the house out a password on the door or something this would make it fun for spies they could listen into the password and get all the loot in the room but this would give a place for people to keep valuble things away from burgalers and thiefs

[Chointhar]

hmmm dont know if this has already been said but...... If say u get stolen from and u can report it to the guards with a description of what  the thief looks like, and the guards then go on to catch the thief. U should be allowed a little \'marking\' (using that word loosely) above the players head or something like that to show u that u reconginse thethief and u can administer some payback. Of course this would be illegal inside a town (would it?) so u can wait till he leaves and reclaim ur stolen possesions. And anything else he may be carrying

[Rageburst]

I have an easy solution! I doubt that anyone will like being stolen from. How about stealing from monsters? Stealing would merely generate a new object from a monster. This way, the thief will not need to kill the monster for its loot.

Players will complain if they kill monsters but get no loot, so stealing should generate a NEW loot... not exactly taking it. Understand?

[paxx]

A topic near and dear to my heart.

A few things should be noted though.

Anything that implies another innocent player will fall victim to seems to me at this moment to not be viable. In essence thieves don?t get to steal from players?but from a players house perhaps :-)

Now, what does this leave thieves to do if they can?t steal?well there are a number of possibilities. One such is a thief Vs. thief type mini game. where thieves belong to a world that others just don?t quite see?in essence TvT as opposed to PvP. Another is to make the skills most attributed with a thief an integral part of the game. unique drops necessary for quest or such to be only attainable through a thief skill.
As an example: Trog Keys.
Dead trogs don?t drop keys, in fact when the trog who had the key dies the key goes away. To enter the trog dungeon someone in the group needs to lift a trog key off a trog?the keys are magical constructs and only last 5 minutes and for one use.

While this is really simplistic this suddenly makes thieves viable to a group?well at least to get in the front door.

Traps and other fun things require a lot of thought and effort on the side of developers. Not so much as to have them, but in a way to implement them that makes them viable. To date no MMORPGs that I am aware of has really done the ?thief? class of characters in a way I deem correct.

This is not because they don?t see the potential or are just stupid, but because it is difficult to do in a well balanced way. My hope is at some point we are able to do so.

[Temrus]

I think there has to be pvp pickpocketing because if there isnt the game isnt realistic enough

[paxx]

Temrus, I?m going to bash on you a bit?nothing personal but you struck an issue I have.

Realism is not an argument for anything, related to a game, realism is an argument for a simulation.

Now for engrossing 3D worlds and such, a level of realism is somewhat necessary, but using it as a ?reason? for anything is not even a decent argument?it is an extremely weak one.  

Realistic game world. You have one life, thieves or people suspected of being thieves are caught while they sleep and their heads find themselves posted on a pole somewhere. Lets not even mention murderers. How these people would be found?well magical scrying can be used to find the objects that are missing.

Anyway, what is realistic enough for certain people and what is not is way too subjective. So in general I ask people to not use realism as an argument. Will the laws of physics be well represented in the game?NO, they will be simulated in a very rudimentary way. Will anyone have the off random ability to kill the ultimate warrior in a single blow?.NO. will a small fall of a 2 meter ledge have a chance to kill a player?NO.

All these things are real and will not be in the game. PvP pickpockets are not common. Pickpockets are usually about teaming up and distracting someone enough to lift what you want, and there is always a chance that the target will notice. And there is also mugging and hold ups. Leaving people without anything of any value. The ability of 20 people to take on the best fighter in the world with little chance of being defeated?one good hit and it is over.

We don?t want realism in our game, at best we want action movie realism?that leads to the question of what movies?

So this rant is all just to say, make a better argument then ?cause it would be realistic? if that was the case imprisonment would be the most common penalty for breaking laws (since death is short term) and then torture and other fun penalties such as maiming. The length of time?years and years since the characters don?t age. In short we would make the penalties so extreme that 99% of players would not do it. And that is where it brings to the table if we would really bother to implement.

[Thynett]

To my mind there can\'t be any pickpocket as long as you can\'t kill outside a guild context. Cause when noticing a thief is stealing in your backpack, ow could you react then ?

Although thiefs are a marvellous way to build plots, and a delicate \"class\" of player (even though there are hundreds of differents thieves, from the the strong primal warrior who would rob your money to the tiny 12 year old girl that emptys your backpack while her friend faint to talk to you) they can not and must not be implemented at this early stage of the year.

paxx (Developer ? Member)
so perhaps ask again in 14 months.

[Temrus]

I just think that player v player pickpocketing would be great because you never get it but i get what you mean about the realistic thing guess i didnt think. But Like a said i wouldnt want you o be able to pickpocket huge swords and stuff just gems and money and things and if you dont want thing to be pickpocketed you can always put them in a bank or something

[pmnox]

i think that there should be some random neutral npcs in game which you will be able to steal from them of course they will be able to attack you if they will see that you have stolen it.
Same as for example with some random neutral moster like sleeping dragon so thiefts will be able to steal from him, but ofcourse dragon will attack low level thiefs or non thiefs because he will notice them

[pmnox]

what do you think about this idea?

[Kuiper7986]

I think Thieves should be the only players that can steal from monsters. Only monsters not other people.

[Wormtail_]

I have a sudden idea. Why not monsters steal from people? I mean, it\'s not fair for the NPCs to be stolen from and not steal back. It would be interesting yet annoying if that happened, but having an item stolen by a NPC or player is basically the same thing. You still lose the item.

Like others said before me, there should be a limit as to what you can steal. Not only weight, though. Size of an item can affect whether it can be stolen or not, or how hard it is to steal. Where the items are can also affect how hard or easy it is to steal that item.

One more thing: I personally believe that anyone can steal from a monster. And anyway, how can you say who is a thief and who isn\'t? The game will not, after all, have any classes. And anything is possible, from old men dragging a horde of gold from a dragon den to walking and talking pie.

Some of my confused thoughts on the topic of thieving.

[Kuiper7986]

wait is Thievery a job, skill, or trade, or class?