Thieves

[Sylk]

I want to see \'rogues\', \'scouts\', and \'thieves\' be able to do what they do....  Steal things.

Make a pick pockets skill that can be used against other players.

Allow them to steal from NPC shops.

Let them break into peoples houses and pilfer.

Okay, I admit that this sounds unfair to non thieves, but it dosn\'t have to be.

Thieves can be made elegible targets to those that caught them stealing and perhaps there guild mates or whatnot.

Guards will attack a known thief and NPC shopkeapers wont sell to them or buy from them.

In most of the games I have played and seen thieves are relagated to a scout role at best.  They dont have the health or armour to stand up against a tank.  They lack the magic to compare to a mage.  They are underpowered when compared to other classes.  because we cant do what thieves are s\'pose to do... Steal.

Im not saying that it wouldnt take some balancing, but I would like to see a \'rogue\' type capable of making a viable living doing what \'rogue\' types do.

Sylk

btw-- Im not saying I would actually ever play a thief, but it would be realistic to have them in game.  And it would be fun to smack around the one with his hand in my pouch...

[Aruneko]

I would like to see theives that can steal from monsters and NPCs.  That way you can be a noble (I don\'t know why anyone would be, but it should be possible) theif.

Of course they should be able to steal from people too, but with some limits which I have not the creativity and intelligence to invent right now.  Also justice will become important.

Perhaps you can only allow stealing against those who have stolen or PKed (Friendly NPCs) before?

[Fiere]

I have seen this discussed before and I would also like to see this ability well used.

I would also like trapsetting and disarming to be put to real use, as in you cannot pass through an area until a rogue breaks the trap for you.

Along with the discussions on \"karma\" like ratings for characters it would be neat to be able to build a reputation as a skilled thief or assassin. When I play a rogue I lean towards the thieving side of the \"profession\" and being able to accomplish Indiana Jones level feats would be my goal.

[Link]

Ok, and what about non-fighters, Blacksmiths, miners, cooks. They would just be left helpless?

[Pheonix]

Thieving would be great for the thieves,
but for anyone who finally manages to get their hands on the uber sword of impaling then walks into a crowded room and finds it not there anymore , its not so great.

The key there would be to find a ballanced system,
in a world where pking isnt all that common its not that easy.
My solution to getting stolenn from is to kill the thief and loot the body, but in this case thats not going to work.

And if thieves are allowed to break into houses then that means that there are going to have to be better better lock some traps and other nasty suprises,

Well like a said a ballance has to be found

[Aruneko]

Player made traps and lock cant be skill dependent because then uber-thieves would run rampant as they would disarm all locks and traps.

[Kiern]

maybe thieves should be easily killed if they are caught/fail like 1-2 hits

[Fiere]

Well definately balance is the key. As for stealing from characters it should probably be limited to money only. The person stolen from should have a chance of realizing it as it happens and therefore being able to seek retribution against the thief.
Perhaps if it was percentage based it would limit the trouble. For instance if the max amount you could steal would be ten percent of what they are actually carrying on their person at the time.

Honestly I\'m more intersted in being able to rob NPC\'s and NPC establishments as parts of tasks and quests. Perhaps you must rescue an NPC to complete a quest and you\'ve got to steal the keys from the guards first.

And Link, of course others wouldnt be left defenseless they would have special skills of their own but this thread was started concerning thieves.

Again these are just ideas not demands. Basically I am hoping that being a thief has a functional advantage to both the individual player and those who would group with them.

[Sylk]

Thanks Fiere and everyone else for joining in this thread.  I am glad to see lively discussion, even from opposing views, such as links.  

But ultimately lively and even wish-some and far fethced discussion of things we would like to see should be posted.  Any opinions spark the imagination and fuel other opinions and ideas.  Without unorthadox thinking we will end up with an orthadox game.

So, I guess what I am saying is I want any opinion or suggestion to be posted so that the Devs and community members have more fuel for thought.  Balance issues, features we might want to see, post any of it.

But as Fiere pointed out, this is about thieves... But I wouldnt mind seeing topics related to thieves.

Sylk

[Vengeance]

As others have pointed out, the core question is how do you enable thieves to \"thieve\" without making it \"suck\" for the other players (victims)?  And how do we keep the game from being 90% thieves?

Everyone here wants to be evil, or at least mischievous, because I guess it is part of the \"escape\" experience from the real world of homework, tests and parents...  Instead everyone can be gorgeous, magical, evil elvish female thieves!

:-)

-Venge

[Fiere]

Well I had posted some ideas as to how to make thieving now \"suck\" for other players. Truthfully I wouldn\'t mind if you couldnt steal from players at all as long as the other aspects I listed were somehow in play.

The way to keep \'everyone\" from playing a thief is simple. Every class has strengths and weaknesses, I\'m sure the team has it covered. Thieves are sneaky and devious, they can accomplish all kinds of feats of stealth while others can\'t. But you can only sneak aroung the dragon for so long, at some point you gotta deal with it.
In steps the mage to start blasting away, subtlty is not his skill and he doesn\'t need it. Someone must be on hand to heal the wounded, the thief can only bandaid so much. A thief is a skilled fighter but rarely have I heard of one taking the brunt of the damage. The fighter can dish and take damage.

/shrugs I really do think the team has already addressed it but this is basically how I imagine it would balance out.

[Velamos]

well being a big thiefe fan and having played every type of rogue in any game I have ever played there are a few things I would like to suggest.

the ability to scale a wall. I have never seen this used but is a cool rogue ability.

Pick Pocket is another one and is cool even if you can\'t steal from Pc\'s

making and applying poison is always a personal favorite.

And hiding in shadows.
After all waht is a Thieve who ain\'t sneaky.

Maybe even the ability to read low lvl scroll spells.

Back Stab is a main stay obviously. But how bout the ability to dual wield qu8cker and more efficiatenly with 2 smaller weapons.

Throwing is a big part of being a rogue but it always takes a back seat to bows and arrows I would Like to see it take a bigger part.

Basically a thiefe is not just someone who steals but is also a swift and efficate killer who does so in silence and discreetly. i would love to see that happen here as one way or another as badly as they might suck that is my char. of choice and is waht I am going to be playing
just my 2 cents

Velamos Swiftblade

[Sylk]

DAoC has wall climbing abilities for high level assassins.  It is a truly cool feature of the game.  One of its redeeming qualities in fact.  Also, assassins get to use 2 small weapons efficiently and apply poison to them.

It is so handy to be able to scale the enemies castle walls and scout the defenders or backstab an archer.  I REALLY liked the whole climb walls thing.

I would like to see some of those features in PS as well.  But what DAoC lacks, is any kinda actuall thieving.  No lock picking, no pocket picking, no traps...  No Thieves.... just assassins.

Sylk

[Pheonix]

Now lets review,
We want thieves to be able to ,

pickpockets from pc\'s and npc\'s, steal from shops pc\'s and npc\'s, poison weapons/food/etc (thereby allowing pking), scale walls, weild dual weapons faster, hide in shadows,backstab, be able to use throwing weapons more proficiently, Set nasty little traps (thereby allowing pking),disarming traps, picking locks,breaking into houses

Hopefully I got everything.........
now seeing as PS isnt class based why would your run of the mill idiot neglect the skills with pk potential ?
IE Poisoning,food,setting traps.
And what is to keep him from abusing them ?

Now I understand most of the people on this thread are pro-thief and thats all fine well and good to each his/her own.

...But while we are making these suggestions for thieving advantages how about a few drawbacks ?
Fieres Karma is one example of that.
Kierns Death by failure is another example.
Whats this whole post about ?
The same thing my first post was about ballance people ballance....

[Sylk]

Pheonix,

Its a \'Wish List\'.

Aside from that however, I dont think any of the pro-thiefs on this thread expect to end up with the end all be all character class.  I think balance is important.  I expect, that all other characters will have their fair share of ways to defend themselves.

Limits are also expected.  I dont really want any one to have the ability to steal the sword of uber l33tness from someone that worked their arse off to get it.  But ANY ability to steal is much greater then the NO ability to steal that you get with most thief types in most MMORPGs today.

Again, its just a wish list.  Feel free to post your ideas to help balance the situation.  It is in fact the other side of the same thread and fits in well here.

Sylk