Skill decay and skill advancement systems

[Malleable]

To prevent everyone from knowing everything we need to put in methods of restriction.

I dont like hard caps on anything!

Put in a skill decay system where skills drop at a rate based on the number of skills you have (or possibly the total skill points your have, or some mathimatical combination).  
IE You cant be a Doctor, Lawyer, Engineer and Economist all at the same time and maintain your high skill in these areas.  Something has got to give.

Put in a skill advancement system so that the greater number of skills you have, the slower you advance in all your skills.
You cant improve skills quickly if you still have to focus on other skills.

We could put in some method of removing skills, or setting them at an increased decay rate, so that you can lower your skill numbers.
This will let you balance out decay rates and advancement rates so that people can play what they want and try out a variety of skills, but not permanently restrict them from developing their character in the long run.
And will also prevent people from quickly shifting to the template of the month.

Comments?

Mal

[Avarus]

Why restricting? RP is all about learning and training as much as possible. I\'ve never seen a RPG in wich you can\'t train everything...

[Draklar]

Originally posted by Avarus
RP is all about learning and training as much as possible.

Funny and I thought RP is about Role-Playing. Get your facts straight :P
And there\'s dozens of RPGs where you can\'t train everything.

And I think this was already discussed, but sadly can\'t find thread :\\

[Bereror]

Originally posted by Avarus
Why restricting? RP is all about learning and training as much as possible. I\'ve never seen a RPG in wich you can\'t train everything...

You may want to check out here what RP is and what RP is not  

[Malleable]

Well, its not realistic that one person can know everything.  I want some amount of realism.

Secondly, if everyone knows everything, people have less of an incentive to work together.  Mostly in the area of trade and crafting.

Third, we eliminate having everyone become clones.  We would have groups with all members wearing full plate, letting off simultaneous fireballs, followed by the entire group pulling out their two handed swords and wacking at the mob.  Or something like that.

Ashrons call had problems similar to that, and the player base got bored with it.

My two coppers.

Mal

PS - sorry for posting an already discussed topic, but I didnt see it, and just getting into the game.

[zanzibar]

Originally posted by Avarus
Why restricting? RP is all about learning and training as much as possible. I\'ve never seen a RPG in wich you can\'t train everything...

There are many RPGs in which you can\'t train everything.

I don\'t like the idea of loosing skills over time.  It\'s realistic, but it\'s not very fun.  It would mean that people would have to put more time into training, which means they\'d be putting less time into role-playing.

At the same time, I think it might actually be necessary.  It would encourage specialization and stratification, and it would allow for changes in careers.

Personally I do like the idea of hard limmits in that you can only have x number of skills above a certain level y, (then x\' over y\', x\'\' over y\'\', etc.).  But I understand that might complicate things, especially if you advance in skills which later you decide you don\'t want.


I\'d be happy with any system that encourages:

-fun
-specialization of characters
-stratification of the player base

But at the same time, people should be able to change career paths if they want to... this is necessary for role-play.  A warrior who leaves the way of the sword to become a merchange or scholar, for instance.

[Malleable]

zanzibar,

I see what you mean about skill loss not being fun if it takes away from RPing.

Heres an addendum that might reduce your concerns.

Say that decay only is checked when a person gains a skill.  So that if a person is exploring or socializing they for weeks on end, they wont lose skills.
But if a person is fighting with his sword, and gaining skill it will check if a skill has been used for a while or not.  If it hasnt, then it has a chance of going down.

I wouldnt want a system where you end up spending all your time trying to keep up your skills.  But I think some moderate decay will prevent people from being Supermen.

I dont like hard caps in that it all characters basically figure out what the best skills to have are, and tend to keep those maxed.  Kinda like in DAOC, if youve ever played it, and you have templates develop.  \"I have a max of X points, so I can max out A, B, and C skill, and have this skill only decent.\"

I know that people will tend to find out what works \"best\" and put forth templates, but without a hard cap people have alot more flexibility.

Mal

[Draklar]

Originally posted by Malleable
Say that decay only is checked when a person gains a skill.  So that if a person is exploring or socializing they for weeks on end, they wont lose skills.
But if a person is fighting with his sword, and gaining skill it will check if a skill has been used for a while or not.  If it hasnt, then it has a chance of going down.

So in the end after all this time of exploring, when you use a sword, you\'ll lose your skills anyway.

[Avarus]

Originally posted by Bereror

Originally posted by Avarus
Why restricting? RP is all about learning and training as much as possible. I\'ve never seen a RPG in wich you can\'t train everything...

You may want to check out here what RP is and what RP is not  

Well, what I mentioned is part of RP (read that in that thread)...

[Malleable]

You wont \"lose your skills.\"

If you go up in sword skill, you have a \"chance\" for a skill to go down.

Would you prefer no decay at all?  Or a hardcap on skills?

I wouldnt.

Mal

[dragonfire999]

Originally posted by Avarus
Why restricting? RP is all about learning and training as much as possible. I\'ve never seen a RPG in wich you can\'t train everything...

\'

no no no.
Rp is playing a role, maybe learning one or two things. Only a single craft or maybe a few weapon styles.

What you said is called power leveling :rolleyes:

[Draklar]

Malleable: No, I mean like if someone was exploring-only for a month and suddenly when he ranked up in swords, he would have everything checked and in the end dropped down.

[Malleable]

Yeah, there has to be some balance, so that you dont lose your character because you were socializing for a month.  

The way I would do it, a month of just socializing or exploring would not count at all towards lowering.
But a month of just using a sword, and not using other skills would mean you havent used your other skills and some skill or skills would be lowered.  
Also I would say this is game time, and have nothing to do with realworld time.  It wouldnt be like you didnt log in and came back to lowered skills.

Heres some made up numbers:
If you have a 1% chance per skill of a skill decline whenever you gain a skill point.  If you have 10 skills you have a 10% chance of 1 skill going down every time you gain a skill point.  So every 10pts you go up you will lose 1 point, or have a net gain of 9.
Now if you have 100 skills, you have 100% chance of 1 skill going down if you gain 1 point, or basically a hard cap on average.

Another way is to base it off total skill points.  Something like .1% chance per skill point.  If you have 100 skill points assigned, you have a 1% chance per skill point gain of losing 1 skill point, or if you have 1000pts, you have a 10% chance to lose a skill point.

Even better than either would be some combination of total number of skills and total number of points.  That way you could weight the percent loss.  Maybe having more skills is relatively more important than the total number of points.  So 60% of skill loss comes from the number of skills and 40% from the total skill points.  Or have a sliding scale where the the more points you have shifts the percent associated between skill numbers or total points.

Theres alot of ways to calculate it, so you dont have too much decay or too little.  

Plenty of ways to balance things I think.

Mal

[SuburbanPlankton]

I think this is a great idea, and have gone on at some length about it before (probably the thread that Draklar remembers).

I don\'t think we need to worry about characters losing all of their skills.  First, make the decay slight, and second, put a cap on the decay.  Make the maximum decay 25%, for example: say you trained to level 20; you will never fall below level 15.  You don\'t forget everything you know, just the fine points that require constant reinforcement.

I think that unused skills should decline.  If the skill is important to you, then use it on a regular (or semi-regular) basis, and you don\'t need to worry about anything.  If you don\'t use a skill, then it probably isn\'t all that important to your character to have it.

The system we have now is set up so that eventually everyone becomes a superman.  given enough time, you have no choice but to max out all of your skills, unless you choose not to train.  This is as far from realism as anything in the game, and needs to be changed.  If you want to be an expert swordsman, then you need to devote your time to swordfighting.  You don\'t have time to become a miner or a blacksmith.  You might have time to gain a basic understanding of these other skills, but it is impossible to become expert in all of them.