hold your fire and take care of your behaviour!

[Draklar]

Originally posted by colonel_vanderbal
I personaly have no problem with people using other languages in PS i think it actually strengthens the rp enviroment, In the real world people use many languages so why not in PS, it is unrealistic to think all across yliakum would speak but one language.

If you where to stand in a bar in rl and a couple next to you where speaking in french you would not complain to them that you cannot understand, in rl everybody is free to speak there native language and enjoy there own culture so why should PS be any diffrent.

What im saying is in rl you will encounter people of varied languages that is the way life is people of diffrent cultures living together if you where to move to another country you would not expect otheres to treat you with disrespect for using your native toungue so PS sould be no diffrent.

Im all for multiple languges but thats just my opinion.

I\'ll consider this as valid argument if you tell me how this situation is possible:
A kran, ynnwn and lemur who come from different part of Yliakum talk in a tavern in a non-english language (how is that possible?). Suddenly role-played very close brother of the lemur comes into the tavern and doesn\'t understand what his brother is saying (how is that possible?).

[Bebel]

We could say that english is the common language in Yialkum ^^  and that some Kran, Lemur ect ... didn\'t learn it

We can considere it in Rp that they didn\'t learn the common language
it could be happen no?

[Askr]

Originally posted by Bebel
We could say that english is the common language in Yialkum ^^  and that some Kran, Lemur ect ... didn\'t learn it

We can considere it in Rp that they didn\'t learn the common language
it could be happen no?

No because that would be inconvenient for all the people who want everyone to speak their language.  It would also make evesdropping so much more difficult.  It would also not give these people something to whine about.

We have 13 races (14 if separate the dwarfen clans) and yet we can only have 1 language.  Each of these races are expected to have different RP origins, but they all manage to speak the exact same language.

The fact that there is any arguing/debating over this is a bit childish.  The world is populated by different people, do you feel distracted/hurt/inable to continue with your normal life every time you hear someone speak in a foreign language?  Probably not, but for some reason you cannot continue in a game the same way.

[Draklar]

Originally posted by Bebel
We could say that english is the common language in Yialkum ^^  and that some Kran, Lemur ect ... didn\'t learn it

We can considere it in Rp that they didn\'t learn the common language
it could be happen no?

So a kran and a lemur wouldn\'t be able to speak common language, but they would be able to communicate in different one, because lemurs and krans have same origins, right?

No.

Originally posted by Askr
We have 13 races (14 if separate the dwarfen clans) and yet we can only have 1 language.  Each of these races are expected to have different RP origins, but they all manage to speak the exact same language.

So one lemur can speak english, another german, another french, and yet another spanish. And it\'s all within their racial origins? And funny coincidence that other races would have the exact same languages in their origins too...

[Seytra]

Precisely, not to mention the fact that the races of Yliakum have at least 750 full years of living together, mixed and even half of them are married to a member of another race. So how would it be possible that just out of the blue someone pops up without knowing the common tongue? How is it possible that the native tongues would even have survived in any but rare niece / historical use?

Originally posted by Askr
No because that would be inconvenient for all the people who want everyone to speak their language. It would also make evesdropping so much more difficult. It would also not give these people something to whine about.

No, it would be inconvenient for those who can\'t be bothered to at least try to speak in the language of the community. Those who can\'t be bothered to integrate themselves. Yes, it\'s just like IRL: given a sufficiently large population of different cultural background, what happens is not that they will integrate, thereby enriching the society by mixing their culture with the local one, but instead form a subculture, completely separate from the local one, which will at best create an enclave, and most commonly create hostility.
So no, it isn\'t the community that has to adapt to your laziness, it is you who have to adapt to the community standards. The language requirement is there for a very good reason: to allow maximum interaction between the maximum number of players. That is why english was chosen. Did you know that PS originates from Italy? Do you also know that the italians happen to speak italian, not english? So it is quite obvious that they didn\'t chose english for their convenience.

Originally posted by Askr
We have 13 races (14 if separate the dwarfen clans) and yet we can only have 1 language. Each of these races are expected to have different RP origins, but they all manage to speak the exact same language.

Care to elaborate on the thirteenth and fourteenth race, please? I must have missed them in the setting and the race page...
Anyway, the reasons for the races speaking a common tongue have been explained above.

Originally posted by Askr
The fact that there is any arguing/debating over this is a bit childish. The world is populated by different people, do you feel distracted/hurt/inable to continue with your normal life every time you hear someone speak in a foreign language? Probably not, but for some reason you cannot continue in a game the same way.

Yes, yes, and you would be just as happy if you were to negotiate something, or learn from someone refusing to speak the language of the place you are in, hmm? IRL, when people don\'t talk your language, it doesn\'t matter because
1) you have not only one small chat window that is cluttered up by the spam (yes, it is spam, because there is no way you can ever get any useful info from it)
2) you are not there for the sole purpose of interacting with them. PS is solely about the interaction of the players by means of their chars in a roleplay way. It\'s really obvious that the first and foremost requirement is a common language that the maximum of players speak. It is, in fact, childish to insist on not adhering to the common sense agreement. :tdown:

[fken]

Originally posted by fken

This subject has been related a lot of time

if you dont want to open the subject another time, you could close the thread Moogie: I am not looking for non official answers.

finally the subject has been opened once again

@acraig: thanks for your answer. but i hope you wont send your trouble makers to oncemmorpg...

@Drakklar: i surely know well whats nationalism is... Especially because even 60years after the WW2 and 90 years after the WW1, you still can see WW consequences in my country... And moreover because i was lucky enough to speak with some nationalists people... It was a soooo useful experience... hmmm no in fact they were awfully close minded... I may teach you what\'s racism is too... especially because of my origins and because when i was 7 i learnt my origins violently...

 @all: I dunno if planeshift has been coded for english... In my developper point of view, I program for everyone. it\'s international and then, as i admit that english is the most common language, I recognize that I would like everyone speak english.

Personnaly if i still play ps and mmorpg on international servers its only because i would like this experience help me to learn: to learn how to speak english, german, maybe other languages and to learn the others culture... Or... it could be a very boring experience...

There is no way to force people to speak english:
1) because newbies are totally lost and are allowed to be welcome not insulted. For the one who everytime spoke english and who don\'t understand just imagine you come on a french server (I must precize that it\'s not unrealistic because 1 or 2 centuries ago, french was the common language) and imagine that french people come and say that your language is forbiden... I am sure at least americans would feel outraged...
2) because communities must be able to be created. It\'s not because you think there must be a melting pot that everyone must do what you want. (BTW I know a l2 server where people are everytime waging wars between russians and europeans/americans... it\'s really stupid)...
3) For some people speaking english is not as easy as some people are believing.
4) you must respect others languages

Moreover, look at LOTR: there are a lot of languages and A common one: people are free to speak the language they want

Some of you said there is a problem when people speak in a non english language while you are rping... I think these ones forget one thing... it\'s not because it\'s french or foreigner language that it\'s annoying: it\'s annoying because there is a group of persons who are speaking and rping while some others open other subjects. The fact it\'s another language really doesnt matter...

And that\'s why, when a newbie speak with me while I am rping with an international group, I go away to not annoy my neighbourghood. It\'s, in my mind, the only rule of the /say channel (and moreover it\'s already included in the rules thanks to the phrase \"respect each others\"...).

I wanna add someone said most of us are english... I dont agree! The most of the ps players speak english for sure, but they arent english... I think it was what you meant when you wrote that but i wanted to precize.

BTW, I have a lot of work and I surely wont be able to visit the planeshift forum like i did before so do not worry if i dont answer...

NB: I wasnt only speaking about french... I was speaking about every languages.

Be pacifist and your relationship will be sweeter! And moreover, dont allow racism, nationalism, or any other things like that in your neighbourghood: you are all responsible of the ps kingdom, if you want a good atmosphere dont let people destroy it.

[Draklar]

Fken, no you don\'t. Check a dictionary or something, because not every form of nationalism is a bad thing. You\'re talking about the extreme kinds of it.

Moreover, look at LOTR: there are a lot of languages and A common one: people are free to speak the language they want

Did you even read my and Seytra\'s posts?

[Askr]

Originally posted by Draklar
So one lemur can speak english, another german, another french, and yet another spanish. And it\'s all within their racial origins? And funny coincidence that other races would have the exact same languages in their origins too...

Yep that is a funny coincidence.  

There is absolutely no useful history given to determine what languages belong to what races.  There are no rules set that state that English is the only language to be used in open chat.  The only complaints here are because people don\'t want their RP/chat interfered with because of foreign languages being used.  Boohoo....let me shed a tear.

I think the issue is pretty much summed up with the following:

Originally posted by acraig
While it\'s true our NPC\'s only understand English how players talk to each other should be of no concern.  

[Bebel]

\"So a kran and a lemur wouldn\'t be able to speak common language, but they would be able to communicate in different one, because lemurs and krans have same origins, right? \" Draklar




Something fun but real :

My mother is cambodian ( lemur? ), my father is italian (diabolo?), and i dont speak cambodian nether italian but i speak  french ( dermorian?) and english (the common language )

[Draklar]

Originally posted by Askr
I think the issue is pretty much summed up with the following:

Originally posted by acraig
While it\'s true our NPC\'s only understand English how players talk to each other should be of no concern.  

Think again.
For a statement to sum up anything, it has to come as a result of a discussion. So far the argumentation here showed many reasons against using of multiple languages, whilst argumentation for it is not much better than, let me quote: \"Boohoo....let me shed a tear.\". Very clever, by the way.

Bebel: Then I don\'t know how your family works if you don\'t speak same language. Also, shall I assume that other cambodians (lemurs) don\'t understand your mother, whilst other italians (diabolis) don\'t understand your father?
Because that\'s basically how it is when one lemur speaks french, while other german.

[Askr]

Originally posted by Seytra
Precisely, not to mention the fact that the races of Yliakum have at least 750 full years of living together, mixed and even half of them are married to a member of another race. So how would it be possible that just out of the blue someone pops up without knowing the common tongue? How is it possible that the native tongues would even have survived in any but rare niece / historical use?

I take it you know little about linguistics.  And since you don\'t I would gather it would probably not be wise to try and base an argument upon linguistics when you know little about it.  750 years is not sufficient, even in a closed environment, for languages to disappear.  Not to mention that 750 years means squat when we have no lifespans for the races.

No, it would be inconvenient for those who can\'t be bothered to at least try to speak in the language of the community. Those who can\'t be bothered to integrate themselves. Yes, it\'s just like IRL: given a sufficiently large population of different cultural background, what happens is not that they will integrate, thereby enriching the society by mixing their culture with the local one, but instead form a subculture, completely separate from the local one, which will at best create an enclave, and most commonly create hostility.
So no, it isn\'t the community that has to adapt to your laziness, it is you who have to adapt to the community standards. The language requirement is there for a very good reason: to allow maximum interaction between the maximum number of players. That is why english was chosen. Did you know that PS originates from Italy? Do you also know that the italians happen to speak italian, not english? So it is quite obvious that they didn\'t chose english for their convenience.

My laziness?  Your arguments are both inane and unfounded.  The community doesn\'t have to adapt to anything.  I don\'t believe I stated that it did.  Another baseless statement on your part.

You are not expected to enter into their conversation if you don\'t understand the language.  If you are incapable of managing your emotions so as not to become hostile to those who speak a foreign tongue, well then that speaks more about you than it does any actual problems.

Did you know that your final questions are again absolutely useless.  I gathered it originated, or at least had current home in Italy because of the web address.  What that has to do with this conversation, I don\'t know.

I think you just like to see yourself post on these boards.

Care to elaborate on the thirteenth and fourteenth race, please? I must have missed them in the setting and the race page...
Anyway, the reasons for the races speaking a common tongue have been explained above.

1. Xacha
2. Ylians
3. Nolthrir
4. Dermorians
5. Dwarves
6. Lemurs
7. Kran
8. Diaboli
9. Enkidukai
10. Klyros
11. Ynnwns

Okay so I miss counted.  I hope your entire point didn\'t rest upon that...

No they haven\'t been explained above.  There actually have been no explanations that carry any weight, other than the one given by ACraig.  Just because you make comments and give poorly thought reasons, does not make an explanation.

Yes, yes, and you would be just as happy if you were to negotiate something, or learn from someone refusing to speak the language of the place you are in, hmm?

The language of the place you are in?

What language would that be?  Just out of curiosity?  I guess you mean the place I am in -- were I there say several hundred years ago before the world became such a global community.  Another baseless example.

IRL, when people don\'t talk your language, it doesn\'t matter because
1) you have not only one small chat window that is cluttered up by the spam (yes, it is spam, because there is no way you can ever get any useful info from it)

Here come those tears again.  You can\'t RP it because you don\'t speak the language.  Its in your window but doesn\'t pertain directly to you, so its spam.  Get used to it...if you don\'t like that you might have to interact with others perhaps you should be playing a single player game.  Then you won\'t have to worry about the fact that not everyone in the game is there for you.

2) you are not there for the sole purpose of interacting with them. PS is solely about the interaction of the players by means of their chars in a roleplay way. It\'s really obvious that the first and foremost requirement is a common language that the maximum of players speak. It is, in fact, childish to insist on not adhering to the common sense agreement. :tdown:

They are not there for the sole purpose of interacting with you.  They are here to interact with other players in the PS game environment.  Not you alone.  If you can\'t meet them halfway, then they sure as hell don\'t have to meet you all the way.

I don\'t remember having to agree to speaking English when I signed up to play PS.  Therefore it is not actually an agreement on my part, and therefore not on anyone else\'s part.  It is simply a wish on your part.  And the fact that you feel everyone must assist in making your wish come true is really the only childishness I see so far.

[Bebel]

to Draklar :
Its because my parents met in Cambodia and the comon language was french (french colonie)
That s why i dont speak my parents language
they learn me french and not their\'s
And now i live in france ^^
And after i learn english at shcool

[Suno_Regin]

Alright, I didn\'t read most of this...But I think that there should be a server for each language

That way, it will still \"seem\" real, without people speaking two languages, at least until we are only allowed to speak...Yliakiam language (I wouldn\'t know the name of it) for roleplaying...

[mac173]

Although I am very new to the game and forum, I will venture to give an opinion here.

No one language is better than another, and I certainly don\'t advocate DISALLOWING all but one language, but I play MMORPG\'s not for the gear or money or the competition, I play the games to meet and do things with other people. I do not care if you are French, German, Turkish, or Chinese. I would in fact be more likely to spend time with you if you were, so I could get to know you.

What I fear about the use of multiple languages is that people will naturally segragate themselves by language. I WANT to converse and RP with people of other cultures and countrys, so I can learn, and grow, both as a character in the game, and as a person.

I will not be able to do that if someone is speaking a language I cannot understand.

I admire those of you whose native language is not English, as it is a difficult language. It IS however the most commonly used COMMON language today, and so the best for use in public forums.

Conversations in /say or /group are a non-issue, its the public conversations that I am talking about, and the  distance that will grow between people based on LANGUAGE that I worry about.

[Suno_Regin]

I just thought of something...How about in PS setup (or when you first download Planeshift) it will ask you what you want the language translated into, that way we can all understand eachother better