hold your fire and take care of your behaviour!

[Draklar]

You want PS to have a translator? You know how such things work? They don\'t work at all x.x
Would be funny to see english being translated to itself though... Since some languages have same words as english, only with different meaning.

[Suno_Regin]

Thats why we have different language translating choices, something like this

English: Nothing, Spanish, French, etc. (scroll bar for language choices)

French: Nothing, English, Spanish, etc. (scroll bar for language choices)

Maybe not the word \"nothing\" but maybe \"same\" something like that anyway

[Askr]

Originally posted by Draklar

For a statement to sum up anything, it has to come as a result of a discussion. So far the argumentation here showed many reasons against using of multiple languages, whilst argumentation for it is not much better than, let me quote: \"Boohoo....let me shed a tear.\". Very clever, by the way.

Actually it does not have to be a result of any discussion, but that is cute.  Argumentation against using multiple languages does not really matter.  Those are the personal preferences of a few who have little to no bearing upon anything anyone else does or says.  

Argument for the use of multiple languages has been sufficient.  There are speakers of multiple languages here and if they choose to speak to each other in their native tongue, then so be it.  As long as there are no rules to state otherwise, and no contractual agreements, your complaints mean next to nothing.  

If you don\'t agree, get rules instituted.  Then you won\'t have to complain anymore, you can just have the people removed from game.  In all likelihood they probably wouldn\'t play the game in the first place, knowing that it was for English speaking people only.

[Draklar]

I don\'t think you understand...
If there is same word in english and some other language, how would the translator know which language is being used?
And like I said, translators don\'t work too well. Try using one...

Askr: Find a single post from me where I complain about people using different language. I simply understand that some people may be annoyed by it and state my opinion about it. You know, thinking about others instead of going \"Boohoo....let me shed a tear.\"?

[Askr]

Askr: Find a single post from me where I complain about people using different language. I simply understand that some people may be annoyed by it and state my opinion about it. You know, thinking about others instead of going \"Boohoo....let me shed a tear.\"?

So you choose to think about those \'others\' that are worried about someone speaking a different language than them.

I have chosen to think about those people who speak a different language and who are being asked to not speak their native tongue because it might make someone hostile or create some gulf between the players or somehow interfere with the RP of a world that has absolutely no provision for language (either RP or OOC).

Perhaps what you are implying is that the only people who are worth thinking about are those that speak English, since you seem to think that I am not thinking of others.  

You know what annoys me?  People who think that their opinions and ideas are the only ones of value.  People who think that their time is somehow more worthy than the next persons.  People who think that everyone in this game world should conform to how they think the world should be RPed, believed, interacted with, and so on and so forth.  I\'m sure you get the idea.

Out of everything that I have said in my posts, the only thing you retained was \"boohoo...let me shed a tear\".

[Draklar]

Askr, english isn\'t my native language, I\'m not from an english speaking country. But even though when I joined Planeshift, my english skills weren\'t all that good and I had many problems with expressing myself in a correct manner, by now I learned to use it with much bigger fluence. So for one I don\'t even see why there is such a must to use a different language.
But let me move on to reason why I stand for the people who are against multiple languages. Besides the reasoning that I stated in my earlier posts, here\'s a moral one. If there\'s a \"higher spheres\" party, with fancy clothes and classical music being played in the background... I won\'t go there dressed in my usual clothes and turn on some metal or other type of alike music. Hell yeah, I like it, but being disruptive to the global community by doing something of my liking, when I don\'t really have to do it, is being rude to say the least. When joining a community, I believe one should do his best to avoid doing such things and try to make himself seen for the good sides, for bringing the state of community a bit further. Making yourself look like \"the guy who speaks french\" won\'t do that, it can at best cause some struggles, like the ones we can see now. The fault doesn\'t lie on the side of people who complain. It was just fine before, it would be fine if others didn\'t use other languages. And they don\'t have to. If they came in here, I assume they can speak english. Otherwise I don\'t see a point in joining a english-based community where the main point is to role-play. Role-playing is much harder when you can\'t communicate. Thus the only reason I see for joining such thing, is the game. But that goes under hack&slash. Since mmorpg\'s without social side are basically that.
In the end I think people who use different languages are just deciding to speak in their native one, because it\'s easier. And at the moment when they decide to do so, they don\'t think about how it could influence the rest of community, if someone might get annoyed because his chatbox gets filled with words he can\'t understand. They think about themselves, because it is so much easier to just use their native language, than try to communicate in english. Just as if they didn\'t need to train it to be able to communicate well with others during further role-playing events.
Why it\'s fine for people to complain? They play this game for a while, they are a strong part of the community. They are doing just fine in it and enjoy their stay here. So why must they deal with every single annoyment that might be caused by people who are seemingly too lazy to try and use language, which would be understood by all the others? Like I said, they don\'t need to use their native language, as they surely know english (or not, but yeah...). All the other people don\'t have a choice. They are forced to hear things they won\'t understand in any way.

Originally posted by Askr
Out of everything that I have said in my posts, the only thing you retained was \"boohoo...let me shed a tear\".

Yes, and it\'ll probably be the thing I\'ll remember you for.

[zorbels]

Can\'t we all get along?

(1) There\'s a translator that will translate any language to any other language. http://www.dictionary.com

(2) If you don\'t like seeing the French talking in the chat box move away. (it really shouldn\'t bother anyone unless you want it to...which to me seems silly)

(3) There is a place on the forums that you can voice your concerns on the wish list. So make some wishes about it....

(4) How many more chat boxes do we need? If I spoke French and wanted to talk with someone in french I would group with them. Only out of respect for those who do not want the chat box filled with a language that they might not be able to understand.

(5)If I was a newbie however then I might want to speak my first language in the chat box to find others who might speak the same tongue. To this I say be friggin patient, really what harm does it do? Personally I think it adds a realism to the game.

(6) Lets not harbor prejudice and as a community show we can honour all nations and languages.

These are my thoughts and comments on the situation, but I really want it understood that to tell people they cannot speak their own language is like telling someone they cannot be themselves, which to me is VERY wrong.

[SeinTex]

I think all this is ... sort of pointless. I assume that one comming as this stage agrees to speak english. I assume that when someone speak in an other language it\'s OOC.

but more than everything else, I assume that once PS will reach version final 1, they\'ll be a set of translations made, and other langages server, because it\'s all under GPL. who would do that ? I\'m french, and I\'m fine with translating PS client in french, even the server. at least it will avoid me to see my country insulted.

anyway, I\'ll keep playing on the english speaking server, and in english...

Edit: ok, I speak \"something I\'d like to be english\" rather than proper english, but you understood me so ...

[Seytra]

Originally posted by Askr
I take it you know little about linguistics.  And since you don\'t I would gather it would probably not be wise to try and base an argument upon linguistics when you know little about it.  750 years is not sufficient, even in a closed environment, for languages to disappear.  Not to mention that 750 years means squat when we have no lifespans for the races.

Hmm, quite interesting. How come then that in America everyone is capable of speaking english, given that
1) America is comparatively recent and
2) the settlers in America were from lots of different countries, with lots of different languages?
3) The mixing in America isn\'t nearly as thorough as in Yliakum?

Originally posted by Askr
My laziness?  Your arguments are both inane and unfounded.  The community doesn\'t have to adapt to anything.  I don\'t believe I stated that it did.  Another baseless statement on your part.

Well, your statement doesn\'t even have any claim besides \"I\'m right\" and \"You\'re stupid\". Which is a bit sad.

Originally posted by Askr
You are not expected to enter into their conversation if you don\'t understand the language.  If you are incapable of managing your emotions so as not to become hostile to those who speak a foreign tongue, well then that speaks more about you than it does any actual problems.

Lol, I\'m perfectly able to control my emotions, unlike you, it seems, judging from your wording.
Seriously, yes, I am not supposed to enter their conversation, eh? Nice, given that yes, RP is about communication. So you think it is a good idea to simply ignore realism for the purpose of being lazy? Interestingly, your \"point\" of the different languages being RP has vanished, yet you still seem to believe that it is somehow tolerable nontheless.

Originally posted by Askr
Did you know that your final questions are again absolutely useless.  I gathered it originated, or at least had current home in Italy because of the web address.  What that has to do with this conversation, I don\'t know.

That doesn\'t surprise me, as you seem to be in general unwilling to actually think about the arguments and what people are trying to say with them.

You came accross as believing that PS uses english as official language because the ones who make it are natively english speaking, and therefore not having any reason besides their convenience. Your claim that other languages are OK in PS only makes sense if you don\'t see the true reasons for the choice, which I have explained: maximum number of people able to communicate in that language.
So it has a lot to do with this conversation, as it should have served to prove that there actually is a reason why it is not italian, which would be natural.
Therefore, quite obviously it follows that english has something over the other languages.
And this means that english should be the language of choice, just as it happens to be.

Originally posted by Askr
I think you just like to see yourself post on these boards.

I think you are lacking points, maturity and willingness to integrate. I\'d even go as far as to wonder if you might be a troll, just there to stir up trouble?

Originally posted by Askr
Okay so I miss counted.  I hope your entire point didn\'t rest upon that...

Hmm, to find out, you might wish to read it some time, maybe? But in case you\'re lazy: no, it didn\'t. However, your miscounting emphasizes your seeming lack of knowledge of the PS background.

Originally posted by Askr
No they haven\'t been explained above.  There actually have been no explanations that carry any weight, other than the one given by ACraig.  Just because you make comments and give poorly thought reasons, does not make an explanation.

Well, the fact that you don\'t want them to carry weight doesn\'t mean they don\'t. If anything, the reasons you have presented were what should be called \"poorly thought out\", which can be seen by how easily they have been ripped to shreds by everyone.

Originally posted by Askr

Yes, yes, and you would be just as happy if you were to negotiate something, or learn from someone refusing to speak the language of the place you are in, hmm?

The language of the place you are in?

What language would that be?  Just out of curiosity?  I guess you mean the place I am in -- were I there say several hundred years ago before the world became such a global community.  Another baseless example.

Hmm, the tactic of adding \"Another baseless example\" or variations of this seems to be a major fad... it\'s certainly easier than bringing up actual arguments, so I guess that\'s why you resort to using it.

Anyway, this quite obviously is not restricted to any particular place. The points to take are:
1) Place where your reason to be is communicating with the people there
2) several people there are unwilling of talking in the agreed upon official language
3) because of that you are unable to fulfill your goal -communicating-
4) the place is not in some medieval time, but here, today, in PS, where it just happens to be that
1) Your reason to be there is RolePlay, which equates to communicating with the people in PS
2) several people there are unwilling of talking in the agreed upon official language
3) because of that you are unable to fulfill your goal -communicating-, which is what RP is
4) this example is an almost perfect, and thus a highly relevant comparison to the situation we are discussing.

Therefore you dismissing it as baseless cannot be explained by logic.

Originally posted by Askr
Here come those tears again.  You can\'t RP it because you don\'t speak the language.  Its in your window but doesn\'t pertain directly to you, so its spam.  Get used to it...

Here comes the immaturity again, paired with gross inability to read properly...
It\'s not spam because it doesn\'t directly pertain to me. It is spam because there is almost noone who can actually get anything out of it. It floods the screen, thereby reducing the amount of proper information conveyed. It\'s parasitic, unwanted and annoying: spam.

Originally posted by Askr
if you don\'t like that you might have to interact with others perhaps you should be playing a single player game.  Then you won\'t have to worry about the fact that not everyone in the game is there for you.

You know that I find this highly amusing.
Wasn\'t it you who said the following?

Originally posted by Askr
You are not expected to enter into their conversation if you don\'t understand the language.

Now isn\'t the contradiction funny? Especially given that yes indeed my point was that I am here solely to communicate with others? So may I ask how it is 1) anything but rude to purposefully prevent me from fulfilling that goal, which is, by chance, the sole reason why PS was created: to facilitate roleplay?
You see, if you think that these unwilling to adopt the community\'s language are somehow right in not wanting me or others interacting with them by using their language as barrier, then wouldn\'t your \"go singleplayer\" argument be more well targeted at them instead of me?
Is it furthermore not funny how you accuse me of being unwilling to interact with them while it is them who are excluding me from interacting with them?

Oh, and before you go \"The other players aren\'t there for you!\" again: What are they there for, then? If you abstract the concept \"me\" to \"other players\", which is completely valid, given that I am merely one example player, and any other player would be in the exact same situation as I am, then you arrive at the necessary conclusion that in fact all players in PS are there to provide an option for others to interact with them. So therefore by entering PS, you are indeed promising to allow that interaction for others. Therefore everyone in PS is there for me, just as everyone, including me, is there for everyone else.

Originally posted by Askr
They are not there for the sole purpose of interacting with you.  They are here to interact with other players in the PS game environment.  Not you alone.  If you can\'t meet them halfway, then they sure as hell don\'t have to meet you all the way.

As I elaborated above, \"me\" is merely a placeholder for \"anyone\". About meeting them halfway... how am I supposed to do that? Learn their language, mayhaps? So now it suddenly is the community who has to adapt to each oddball player who thinks there is no need to conform? You can\'t be serious.
I don\'t see them trying to meet the community even a tiny little bit on the way, BTW. You see, I have no problem helping them by phrasing things less complex and making shorter, simpler sentences. However, if they can\'t be bothered to even try to communicate in english, then I\'m sorry, it is not my obligation to meet them the full way, not even halfway. It\'s always the newcomer who needs to go the greatest part of the way. Why? Because a community isn\'t feasible otherwise.

Originally posted by Askr
I don\'t remember having to agree to speaking English when I signed up to play PS.  Therefore it is not actually an agreement on my part, and therefore not on anyone else\'s part.  It is simply a wish on your part.  And the fact that you feel everyone must assist in making your wish come true is really the only childishness I see so far.

Ah, yes, you are obviously one of the people who insist on doing things unless a court rules against it. Rude, to say the least. You are ignorant of the concept of \"etiquette\", or unwilling / incapable of applying it.
Entering a place where english is the language of choice and refusing to speak english there is obviously bad. And it is the reason why people start getting hostile towards those who are rude, and in the long run towards foreigners in general, because they have had to learn that a lot of them are rude. Interestingly, some nationalities seem to produce more of the rude \"I speak my language no matter what\" sort than others, and therefore it\'s no wonder that these nationalities are more easy spotted and also regarded less highly than others.
No, I don\'t agree with \"nuke France\", nor any other country. However, I agree with \"Kick out, without mercy, those who just want to stir up trouble and / or aren\'t mature anough to integrate\".

Matter of point of view:
When you go somewhere and indulge yourself in blatantly disregarding the local customs, rubbing it into everyone\'s faces, you\'ll feel cool, superior, because you can just do it and they can\'t do anything about it, and on top of it you can show them how much better your ways are. After all, they are just retarded or at best have no idea. And they need you.

When someone goes somewhere and indulges in blatantly disregarding the local customs, rubbing it into everyone\'s faces, that someone is making a fool of themselves, looking ignorant, rude and superstitious. They don\'t know better for lack manners, decency and understanding, and on top of it display inability of seeing behind the superficial. After all, that someone is a sad case of misguided pride. But that someone just doesn\'t know better, so you just shake your head.

@ SeinTex: There will AFAICS never be a non-english PS world. The reasons have been elaborated on other threads, but the essence is that there is supposed to be one, any exactly one Yliakum. Not several clone Yliakums.
The entire PS community is supposed to be in this single world.
Reason: Realism is better because \"there are other clones of this world\" rubs the fact that it\'s a game into everyones face. Also, it splits up the community, thereby reducing the overall RP by reducing chances of RP intersecting and growing from that.
Also, the GPL applies only to the source code. The actual content, which includes the GUI and the text as well as models and everything else is not GPL. It is under a highly restrictive license, in fact.
Translations are allowed, and have been done before, and I don\'t disagree with them since very good reasons have been pointed out in the other threads why a translation of client, Pleayers Guide and website are helpful and not disruptive. However, this does not remove the english-ness of the community, for the reasons I stated above.

However, I can\'t help but wonder:

Originally posted by SeinTex
at least it will avoid me to see my country insulted.

AFAICS the petty and ignorant outbursts of a few immature kids are something that could cause nothing more than a \"/report \".

However, the fact that this is so easily triggered also is a warning sign that there is, at least in part, a reason for the prejudices, though.
I\'m definitely not attacking you, as you obviously are reasonable in this respect. However, I think there is a mindset issue with many more french players than other nations. I am perfectly sure that the great majority of french players is absolutely fine. However, the ones who aren\'t are either more in numbers compared to other countries or more vocal / more extreme than others. And it\'s a sad but true fact that it only takes a few bad apples to give the entire lot a bad reputation.

This isn\'t an insult to your country. No country is perfect (I have some issues with my own). However, one shouldn\'t ignore or dismiss problems just because they affect one\'s country, that only feeds the prejudices.
Maybe that\'s more easy for me because I regard my nationality as something entirely random, something I did nothing to acquire. Yet, the failures of others from my country reflect back on me, so I can not only not ignore them, but must take them very seriously, trying to make them not happen whenever possible.

Edit: corrected quote attribution

[Karyuu]

Originally posted by SeinTex
but more than everything else, I assume that once PS will reach version final 1, they\'ll be a set of translations made, and other langages server, because it\'s all under GPL.

You assume wrong - there will never be separate servers that will divide the world into sections for different languages, time zones, countries, etc. This has been an official development position for a long time :)

[fken]

Originally posted by Karyuu

Originally posted by SeinTex
but more than everything else, I assume that once PS will reach version final 1, they\'ll be a set of translations made, and other langages server, because it\'s all under GPL.

You assume wrong - there will never be separate servers that will divide the world into sections for different languages, time zones, countries, etc. This has been an official development position for a long time

I do not think it is the only mistake in that quote: can you tell me SeinTex who told you ps was all under GPL ? Arts are not! In fact only developping codes are under GPL...

EDIT : It is odd to seethat each time i post here i am creating another page...

[Askr]

 The fault doesn\'t lie on the side of people who complain. It was just fine before, it would be fine if others didn\'t use other languages. And they don\'t have to. If they came in here, I assume they can speak english. Otherwise I don\'t see a point in joining a english-based community where the main point is to role-play. Role-playing is much harder when you can\'t communicate. Thus the only reason I see for joining such thing, is the game. But that goes under hack&slash. Since mmorpg\'s without social side are basically that.

There is no fault.  No one has done wrong, that is until there are rules instituted.  Which if you are so concerned would probably be the best path to take.

In the end I think people who use different languages are just deciding to speak in their native one, because it\'s easier. And at the moment when they decide to do so, they don\'t think about how it could influence the rest of community, if someone might get annoyed because his chatbox gets filled with words he can\'t understand. They think about themselves, because it is so much easier to just use their native language, than try to communicate in english.

Again every player in this world is not here to please every other player.  People are going to get annoyed regardless.  That is part of life.  And barring the few 11 year olds who come in here, I would expect that everyone here is mature enough to realize that the world does not exist solely for their satisfaction.

Why it\'s fine for people to complain? They play this game for a while, they are a strong part of the community. They are doing just fine in it and enjoy their stay here. So why must they deal with every single annoyment that might be caused by people who are seemingly too lazy to try and use language, which would be understood by all the others?

Why must they deal with it?  Because they are not the sole possessers of this world.  If they think they are, then they should be playing single player games.  Laziness is not taking the annoyances in stride and expecting everyone else to make the effort to change, when they are not willing to do so themselves.

Like I said, they don\'t need to use their native language, as they surely know english (or not, but yeah...). All the other people don\'t have a choice. They are forced to hear things they won\'t understand in any way.

They don\'t need to use English either to enjoy the game.  You might not be able to enjoy their company, but they don\'t need you either.  As long as we are talking about \'need\'.

Other people do have a choice....ignore those people who aren\'t speaking English.

[/QUOTE]Yes, and it\'ll probably be the thing I\'ll remember you for.
[/QUOTE]

Impressive.

[Askr]

Originally posted by Seytra
Hmm, quite interesting. How come then that in America everyone is capable of speaking english, given that

Have you been to America?  Do you live there?  Have you actually set foot outside?

1.  Not everyone in America is capable of speaking English.
2.  There are still lots of different languages spoken in America.
3.  Mixing has little influence on this discussion since we have no information regarding generation gaps, life spans, or statistical information concerning racial dispersion over the history of Yliakum.

Well, your statement doesn\'t even have any claim besides \"I\'m right\" and \"You\'re stupid\". Which is a bit sad.

But your statement concerning my laziness and community adaptation is somehow meaningful?  Again, did I state anywhere that you were \'stupid\'?  

Lol, I\'m perfectly able to control my emotions, unlike you, it seems, judging from your wording.

What wording was that?  Where you said I called you stupid?  Hmmm... Was it where I brought up hostility?  So far you are the only one bringing up emotions.

Seriously, yes, I am not supposed to enter their conversation, eh?....

RP is about communication.  But RP with you is not a requirement.  Ignore realism?  It is a fantasy world, how far are you going to push realism?  Realism is not everyone speaks the same language.  Realism is not everyone gives a care if you want them to speak your language.  Realism is not everyone wants you to be a part of their experiences.  Realism is not \" go out of your way to make Seytra happy\".  When you want to be realistic, let me know.

That doesn\'t surprise me, as you seem to be in general unwilling to actually think about the arguments and what people are trying to say with them.

Unwilling to think about the arguments?  Hmmm.... I have thought about it from both sides.  Its really a very simple argument actually.

You came accross as believing that PS ...

Not my belief at all.  I know the reason why English is used.

Your claim that other languages are OK in PS only makes sense if ...

You are talking statistics now.  Your reasoning has completely changed in two posts.  And since you based these arguments on a false assumption, they are again baseless and useless in your defense.

So it has a lot to do with this conversation, as it should have served to prove that there actually is....

No really it doesn\'t support your stance at all.  Even considering the sudden switch in reasoning behind your stance.

I think you are lacking points, maturity and willingness to integrate...

Willingness to integrate?  I am speaking English.  English is my native tongue.  What are you talking about, willingness to integrate?  Maturity?  You mean like the maturity involved in becoming hostile because someone is not speaking English?  Or the maturity involved in segregating myself from other players because they are not speaking English?  What maturity are you referring to precisely?  The maturity based upon the reasoning that \"because everyone else is doing it so should you\"....

Hmm, to find out, you might wish to read it some time, maybe? ...

Read what?  Your stance?  I\'ve read it.  It went from emotional breakdowns (hostility towards non-English speaking people) and segregation (subcultures) to being one about statistical values of English speaking people.  Somewhere in there you attempted to throw in the fact that the Devs have chosen English over their (one\'s, someone\'s) native Italian and are trying to use that as a basis to necessitate speaking English in-game.  Regardless of the fact that no provision for such a necessity has been made.  I  have read it and I am fully aware of your stance.

I am also aware of the PS background.  On the otherhand you seem to enjoy making assumptions based upon non-existent information and attribute those false assumptions to the PS world.

Well, the fact that you don\'t want them to carry weight doesn\'t mean they don\'t...

Everyone?  Everyone consists of many more people than 3.  I am sure you are aware of that little fact.  It doesn\'t matter if I want them to carry weight or not.  Until a rule is made, everything else is just wishful thinking.

Hmm, the tactic of adding \"Another baseless example\" ...

It is not a tactic.  It is simply pointing out your poor examples.  Actual arguments?  \'The language of the place you are in\' is not an argument when there is no single language of the place I am in.  It makes no sense and has no validity as an example in this discussion.  Which is what makes it baseless.

Anyway, this quite obviously is not restricted to any particular place. The points to take are:

Your goal was to communicate with only one single person?  If so, you are not contributing to the RP environment and might be considered to be stalking.  Or is your goal to communicate with every person there?  Because we both know the latter is not true.  If I need to dig up quotes to prove so, I will.

4) this example is an almost perfect, and thus a highly relevant comparison to the situation we are discussing.

It is nowhere near perfect because:

a.  Your goal is not to communicate with every single person but to RP in the PS environment.  Communication is only allowable in an RP manner and therefore any normal daily communication with non-English speaking people would not take place anyway.
b. The language is not official until it is stated to be so in TOS, User Agreement or in the game information itself.  Which no such statement exists.
c.  This game has not been created for the sole purpose of you fulfilling your goal.  It is created for the enjoyment of many people, of which you are but one.

Therefore you dismissing it as baseless cannot be explained by logic.

This statement is illogical.

Here comes the immaturity again, paired with gross inability to read properly...

That is humorous.

It\'s not spam because it doesn\'t directly pertain to me...

Almost noone....

It floods the screen...

The same could be said for you.  Regardless, if you don\'t like it... use the ignore filter.  Or does that fall under the issue of laziness?

Now isn\'t the contradiction funny?

That is not a contradiction.  

Especially given that yes indeed my point was that I am here solely to communicate with others?...

Because they are not here for the sole purpose of assisting you in fulfilling your goal.  This game is not about you.  The fact that you think it is somehow centered around you is in reality a bit rude.  I believe the name is PlaneShift, not Seytra\'s Goals.

You see, if you think that these unwilling to adopt the community\'s language ...

No because they are not saying that you must help them fulfill their goals.  You are saying they must help you fulfill yours.  That then makes you the center of the issue, because you want them to conform to your desires, and not the other way around.  They are content to not have you involved in their experience, whereas you feel they should somehow strive to better your experience.

Is it furthermore not funny how you accuse me ...

And apparently they have no issue with that.  On the other hand you seem to take issue in the fact that they can and will play the game without you.

Oh, and before you go \"The other players aren\'t there for you!\" again: What are they there for, then?

To play the game.

If you abstract the concept \"me\" to \"other players\", which is completely valid...

They are not there to provide an option.   They are there to RP for their own benefit.  They didn\'t join this game to please others.  They joined the game to enjoy the pleasure themselves.   You are not necessary for that.

So therefore by entering PS, you are indeed promising to allow that interaction for others...

No such promises were made.  Nor were they asked of any players joining PS.  I am not there for you.  Don\'t think so highly of yourself to think that I have any interest in assisting you in your goals, RP or otherwise.

As I elaborated above, \"me\" is merely a placeholder for \"anyone\". About meeting them halfway...

Entirely serious.  The exact same way you would interact with people IRL that don\'t speak your language.  Meet them halfway.

I don\'t see them trying to meet the community even a tiny little bit on the way, BTW.

They weren\'t communicating with you.  Therefore they were in no need to meet you even a little bit of the way.

It\'s always the newcomer who needs to go the greatest part of the way...

Never.  It is always the elders who should be doing the most to set the best examples.  The newcomers should always have the leaway needed to find their niche and become accustomed to the new environment.

Ah, yes, you are obviously one of the people who insist on doing things unless a court rules against it...

Etiquette differs from place to place.  I don\'t consider trying to force feed newcomers my personal goals to be proper etiquette.

Entering a place where english is the language of choice ...

Again there are no provisions made for language.  So it is the language of your choice.  Obviously the majority\'s as well, but it is not the only option.  That is just your misguided belief.

And it is the reason why people start getting hostile towards those who are rude

You are the only rude individual so far.   Your manners are atrocious.  Your choice of wording is very nearly insulting and your arguments are demonstrative of one who thinks more of himself than the community he is so savagely trying to defend.

, and in the long run towards foreigners in general,

This is an internet RP World.  There are no foreigners.  I am quite amused that you did mention this though.  It serves well to demonstrate why you are taking such an interest in these matters.

because they have had to learn that a lot of them are rude...

So now you are at issue with nationalities other than yourself.  Has this game become your personal playground so that you can spread your potentially hateful (or was that hostile?) beliefs?

No, I don\'t agree with \"nuke France\", nor any other country...

So they should give up who they are to be just like you because you don\'t approve of their difference?

When you go somewhere and indulge yourself in blatantly disregarding the local customs...

That is your point of view simply reversed.  I would gather that is not the point of view for the vast majority of people.

When someone goes somewhere and indulges in blatantly disregarding the local customs...

Again that is how you view the world.  Your customs do not apply, because this is a fantasy world.  There are no provisions made for language.  Until then, there are no \"customs\" concerning languages, there just assumptions.

[Lolitra, Celorrim Purrty Twins]

we personnally see no wrong in others speaking in their own tongue, but to belittle anyone for it, and cite hatred due to country of origin, religion of their REAL LIFE is just unacceptable and infact illegal in United Kingdom as we think it is also the case in all EU countries under the European Commission of Human Rights.. and could lead to prosecution, should someone feel fit to complain and go to the lengths of gathering the evidence via logs on the server... [so think very hard prior to doing so before us if you live in UK - we may just take you to court and this free game will suddenly become very exspensive for you alone for your lack of judgement]

So it is best for all to just enjoy what is free, and be curtious to those who join in, and not ruin it for the rest by being so blatently stupid.

If people speak their language and not others they are the ones who may lose out on some RP opportunities, but by speaking in a common English tongue it helps only with others listening in on their RP and allows others to try and join in.

Those who are persistantly abusive and racist and like should be banned without comeback via their IP for the sake of the other players, and this game which I am sure would not want to be shut down under the Misuse telecommunications act for unsolicited or malicious electronic transmitions whilst investigations take place!\'

[zorbels]

*sighs* Again I say can\'t we all get along and Lets not harbor prejudice and as a community show we can honour all nations and languages.

[edit] Lolitra, Celorrim if that is true then let us hope some people hold there tongues.