Baddest of the Bad?

[Draklar]

Yeah, I\'m grumpy and stuff... Hope you don\'t take it too seriously :P

That\'s my point though. It doesn\'t matter whether someone needs to be dumb to listen or not. We can just assume the victim is an idiot, what matters is the reasoning behind the actions of evil character.

[zanzibar]

Originally posted by Draklar

Originally posted by zanzibar
There are occassional opportunities to be bad.  More recently, as Shalmaneser I was \"helping\" a new person learn about the game by having a mock duel with him to show him combat and magic.  As part of his training, I dropped some health potions on the ground and proceeded to cast weakness on him two or three times.  I told him in public chat, \"I\'ve just poisoned you.  I give you about a minute to live unless you figure out how to drink those potions.\"  Then I used /tell to instruct him on how to use them.

So when teacher tells you that you have one day to do your homework and if you won\'t, you fail the class... Then the teacher is evil, hmm?

Interesting, but I don\'t buy it.

I am also interested in your excuse why an evil character poisoned someone and at once gave the antidote.

In this case, failure means death.

[Auran]

Well I noted the topic of this post and I wanted to contribute some of my personal opinions. Before I do I would like to point out that some might agree with it and some might not. To those that do not agree I wish to say \"Shove it!!\". I know I am a fool but they are no less moronic. The world my friends is a big crackhouse. There is no reason to think that your bullsh!t is better than mine. The bull/cow may differ but its still \"sh!t\".

Evil, as I see it, is pure apathy. Evil is to do what you want and not care how it affects others. No matter what example you can cook up it can be fitted into this model. To have acted evilly is to have acted without regard to the effects on fellow creatures. Whether driven by the noblest motives or the basest instincts it is always evil to disregard the fallout. Think a bit and you will see.

That said I would like to point out some ideas that come up in this thread which I agree with.

First I think that there needs to be evil in the realms. There has to be something for the good guys to do. How can they claim to be good if all they ever get to do is have tea parties. They are not good. They have simply not faced any situation where a moral decision needs to be taken.

Second I disagree that the game needs to support things like PKing and stuff for evil people to really have fun. Sure that would be nice but you can also have fun without it if you are creative. I\'ve had fun in my days and considering I scarcely ever was ingame there is some credibility to this statement I make.

Third I disagree that the environment is hostile so its killing off evil. Being evil was never meant to be a walk in the park. Ofcourse you will be ranted at , whined at and persecuted by the\"Oh-So-righteous! Holier-than-thou\" GMs. But if you whine about it then you are no different from other lame whiners. A poseur villian so to speak. Be creative. Evil finds a way. After all it is primal. Good is a refinement. Evil is natural. And you give the GMs and Devs too much credit if you assume they have made a watertight game.

Thats it for this post. This issue is too long to be addressed in a single shot. I will continue this elaboration in later posts. I know you probably don\'t care but m3h you can kiss me keester!

PS: Howdy Drak!!;)

[Draklar]

Originally posted by zanzibar
In this case, failure means death.:)

Yeah, well, that doesn\'t explain anything. Both have negative consequences, and what those are - doesn\'t matter.

[zanzibar]

Originally posted by Auran
Evil, as I see it, is pure apathy. Evil is to do what you want and not care how it affects others. No matter what example you can cook up it can be fitted into this model.

Nope.  If someone acts to hurt someone, they are not apathetic, but we would describe their actions as evil, and themselves by extension.

Originally posted by Draklar

Originally posted by zanzibar
In this case, failure means death.

Yeah, well, that doesn\'t explain anything. Both have negative consequences, and what those are - doesn\'t matter.

A good or kind teacher might be more patient and friendly.

[Draklar]

Originally posted by zanzibar
A good or kind teacher might be more patient and friendly.

Unless his patience is at a wane, due to the pupil slacking off :P

[zanzibar]

Originally posted by Draklar

Originally posted by zanzibar
A good or kind teacher might be more patient and friendly.

Unless his patience is at a wane, due to the pupil slacking off

The guy I was helping wasn\'t slacking off at all.  He was eager to learn.

[Draklar]

That\'s irrelevant. Unless you taught him in-character. But then a question arises if that relly is evil or just rigorous. And if teaching someone to drink ic is good role-play wise too. After all character had to drink something before in order to survive.

[zanzibar]

Originally posted by Draklar
That\'s irrelevant. Unless you taught him in-character. But then a question arises if that relly is evil or just rigorous. And if teaching someone to drink ic is good role-play wise too. After all character had to drink something before in order to survive.

I was helping him out while in-character.   I think experiencing your first health potion can be RPed.  The evil bit was casting weakness on him, forcing him to drink the potions under the looming threat of death.

[Draklar]

Yeah, seems completely deprived of reason, purpose, any form of \"why?\". completely unnatural event too.

Sorry, it\'s just that I don\'t see behaviour of characters lacking any purpose as well role-played. But that\'s just my personal opinion.

[r.guppy]

So i think i got it it was sort of bad, also bad training metherds.

 But i will go with Draklar on this one.

[zanzibar]

Originally posted by Draklar
Yeah, seems completely deprived of reason, purpose, any form of \"why?\". completely unnatural event too.

Sorry, it\'s just that I don\'t see behaviour of characters lacking any purpose as well role-played. But that\'s just my personal opinion.

Deprived of reason?  Purpose?  Isn\'t that entirely intuitive?  And how do you get off calling it unnatural, when pretty much anything anybody does is unnatural?  And further, even if you don\'t know why someone is doing something, it\'s awfully arrogant to then say that person is acting without purpose.  But that\'s just my personal experience.

[Draklar]

Originally posted by zanzibar
Deprived of reason?  Purpose?  Isn\'t that entirely intuitive?  And how do you get off calling it unnatural, when pretty much anything anybody does is unnatural?  And further, even if you don\'t know why someone is doing something, it\'s awfully arrogant to then say that person is acting without purpose.  But that\'s just my personal experience.:)

I already asked for the purpose of such behaviour. And was given none. That\'s not arrogant, I simply reprocess the facts I\'ve been given.
Evil character hurting someone to gain money, or to get rid of something who might be a danger for his plans = natural.
Evil character poisoning someone and then giving healing potions with no personal gain out of it taken = very unnatural.

[zanzibar]

Originally posted by Draklar

Originally posted by zanzibar
Deprived of reason?  Purpose?  Isn\'t that entirely intuitive?  And how do you get off calling it unnatural, when pretty much anything anybody does is unnatural?  And further, even if you don\'t know why someone is doing something, it\'s awfully arrogant to then say that person is acting without purpose.  But that\'s just my personal experience.

I already asked for the purpose of such behaviour. And was given none. That\'s not arrogant, I simply reprocess the facts I\'ve been given.
Evil character hurting someone to gain money, or to get rid of something who might be a danger for his plans = natural.
Evil character poisoning someone and then giving healing potions with no personal gain out of it taken = very unnatural.

The fact that no reason was given doesn\'t mean there was an utter lack of reason and intention and design.  And who says there always has to be personal gain in the form of money or power?

[seperot]

Evil is not killing someone - Evil is killing someone, Framing some other chump, winning the court case to own all there property, then visiting them once a week in prision just to laugh at them.

Evil is not making people angry - Evil is making friends become enemys by carefully construction opinions into daggers and handing opposing ones to each side then driving on each side to a messy battle, then when they look to you to fill there void of a friendship that once was abuse that for profit and personal gain

Evil is not a job - its a damn fun way of life!


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