Baddest of the Bad?

[Sangwa]

That\'s because some laws are also made to prevent evil actions.

That sentence although true, doesn\'t say much

It was a reference to the current topic. It also expressed my opinion about evil being pure apathy. I\'m not sure why it should say anything besides that .

[zanzibar]

Originally posted by Draklar

Originally posted by Sangwa
Evil can be apathic.

That sentence although true, doesn\'t say much

All evil, good and neutral can be apathic, it isn\'t depending on alignment.

And yeah, lawful-evil is often unnoticed. Maybe because when hearing \"evil\", people think about people who cause disorder and break the law.

Would a corrupt politician qualify as lawful evil?

[Draklar]

Sangwa: Current topic was strongly connecting evil with apathy, so it needed clarification ;)

Zanzibar: Yeah. Someone who shows morally objectionable behavior, but thinks it\'s ok as long as justified through law, should be considered as lawful-evil. Simply someone who uses law to steal from ohers and such.

[Cyl]

Well lawful evil could be a person who makes others suffer, but has a personal codex, for instance he wouldn\'t harm children (but he wouldn\'t hestitate to kill their parents).

[Draklar]

Although children isn\'t the best example (as same would happen if someone didn\'t have the heart to harm children). But not attacking the defenseless would do well.

[zanzibar]

Originally posted by Draklar
Sangwa: Current topic was strongly connecting evil with apathy, so it needed clarification

Zanzibar: Yeah. Someone who shows morally objectionable behavior, but thinks it\'s ok as long as justified through law, should be considered as lawful-evil. Simply someone who uses law to steal from ohers and such.

That\'s not what my understanding has been, but this is part of the problem with labels.  I\'ve always thought of lawful evil as an evil-motivated character who has a strong personal code of conduct.

[Draklar]

Originally posted by zanzibar
That\'s not what my understanding has been, but this is part of the problem with labels.  I\'ve always thought of lawful evil as an evil-motivated character who has a strong personal code of conduct.

That\'s because both definitions apply. It\'s same case as with lawful-neutral; Where one might be a city guard, whilst other a free-lance warrior following a code of honour.

From same definition:

A lawful evil character methodically takes what he wants within the limits of his code of conduct without regard for whom it hurts.
[...]
Many lawful evil characters use society and its laws for selfish advantages, exploiting the letter of the law over its spirit whenever it best suits their interests.
[...]
Lawful evil is sometimes called \"diabolical\", because devils are the epitome of lawful evil. Other examples of lawful evil characters include tyrants, petty bureaucrats, and mafia bosses.

[seperot]

mmm..... out of interest where do i come on the shiny scale of evil?

i dont think im chaotic. i prefer some reason behind everything i do...yet i doubt im lawfull since i find rage a just cause under some conditions....

also if you want a grade A chaotic evil person...look up that fakeshadow chick....freakin nuts...

[Draklar]

Chaotic evil doesn\'t mean you\'re random. It means you don\'t care about the law and feel just fine causing destruction and mayhem. Doing whatever your greed and hatred push you to do.

[Sangwa]

I don\'t think Seperot\'s Chaotic Evil though. Chaotic Evil people are rarely capable of leading or forming any groups. It\'s within their nature to harm everyone around them.
Seperot would be more like True Evil, using every mean he has to satisfy his whim, while being capable of understanding law enough to use it.


Lawful Evil characters are lawful evil as long as their actions reflect some kind of rule or order while posing a threat and harm to people.
A Lawful Evil man can delight in killing children, but he\'s not throwing himself into a self-indulgence rush, but structuring something that allows the controled satisfaction of that desire.
For example, a tyrant who creates a children sacrifice ritual. He enjoys their suffering, but he finds that slaughtering them might go against his best interest.

That\'s why I enjoy this alignment so much. Lawful Evil for me is being ambitious while being calculist. Just like playing a game.

[Annah]

You waste way too much time with discussions which kind of \"evil\" is the \"most evil\" and which not. That\'s why there\'s no one around that can be called a person who deals with \"evil actions\".

 You see, good, evil, they\'re only words, they\'re both relative. Same as the borders that exists between them, they exist only in our mind.

 After all, there\'s only the person and the goals he wants to achieve in his lifetime. Of course, because the paths he\'ll follow might differ from others, and in their views might be wrong, that doesn\'t mean it\'s evil, nor good.

[seperot]

Annah, while that statement holds true to the real world..it realy cant be placed in this realm well...in games people \"Like\" to have it more black and white....not too much but just enough so people can see where boundarys lie....thats why i\'ve given up on my \"evil by actions not by the words\" stint

in short terms...its a game therefor real world policys cant ever stick to it....much like walking outdoors with a pair of daggers outside is not accepted in the real world

[Annah]

Damn you, you might be right. But I still hold my statement. You do realize that my pride doesn\'t let me agree with you.



Oh by the way, I started to download the client. Hm...

[Sangwa]

There isn\'t such a thing as time wasted when one\'s having fun ^^.

Also, everything we type are but words. And our mind is as important a realm as the one our bodies linger in.

And I so much disagree with how some people disregard the alignment system. For me, it\'s pure romanticism, and as players (and rational people) we should all be able to tell good from evil and law from chaos.

It IS possible to label characters! And it\'s useful too! This way players may know the guilds and organizations more fit to their character.
It\'s also possible to classify them in various ways, not just the Dungeon & Dragon way.

I keep saying this about alignments, and have already posted it in the wish list: The Developers should choose an alignment system. Chosing no alignment system is a valid choice, but they have to specify, else people will keep spawning their own ideas and disregard any kind of organization the alignment systems should bring.

[Annah]

There isn\'t such a thing as time wasted when one\'s having fun ^^.

Oh yeah, like in the old times. ^_^

I keep saying this about alignments, and have already posted it in the wish list: The Developers should choose an alignment system. Chosing no alignment system is a valid choice, but they have to specify, else people will keep spawning their own ideas and disregard any kind of organization the alignment systems should bring.

And isn\'t this better? A greater freedom? After all, this way more people will \"love\" the game, having their own ideas in this matter.

Meh, and who cursed me again? It seems I cannot download the game client by any means. Meh.