are gold rings implemented yet?

[zanzibar]

Originally posted by Draklar
Haha, zanzibar logics xD
\"The good of humanity\" is when you do something that would affect whole human population. Pointing someone to where he can buy a chicken is hardly bringing goodwill to the whole humanity

No peace in the world without peace in the nations
No peace in the nations without peace in the town
No peace in the town without peace in the home
No peace in the home without peace in the heart
- Tao Te Ching




Anyway, I did hint at wanting the item while in the plaza.  The following conversation followed, as expected:

***
Shalmaneser wouldn\'t mind having a gold ring.
Myysst says:  shalmenazer ur stupid lol
Shalmaneser is inspired by the poetry of Myysst\'s words.
New Person says:  OM.G what do you type to get it to write like that!
Shalmaneser is confused by the strange terms.
New Person says:  LIKe with your keyboard noob1
Myysst says:  I beat shal in duel lulz
***

I found it myself anyway, but asking people in game for bits of information like that is the ideal but not always possible.  Of course, it\'s highly situational, but I\'d sooner say \"Talk to the character [insert name of one of my characters] in game and he\'ll probably help you out\" than simply \"Ask someone in-game.\"  That way, I\'m keeping it in-game but I\'m also doing something about it and not leaving it in the hands of chance or circumstance.

[Draklar]

Originally posted by zanzibar
No peace in the world without peace in the nations
No peace in the nations without peace in the town
No peace in the town without peace in the home
No peace in the home without peace in the heart
- Tao Te Ching

Aha so I see it. Some poorly dressed man asks Shal for pointers to the groffel. Shal gives some hints and the man goes to his master, who then orders all the needed materials. Then he gets the Groffel, kills it and stuffs it out to hang by his fireplace.
While at the same time some man fights his way to give the last moment of happiness to his dying daughter. By giving her the groffel she always wanted. He fights all the beasts with his bare hands, gets materials with primitive tools. Just so that when he comes to collect the groffel, he hears \"Sorry, I\'m tired of giving things away to people. In all the time not even single time have I heard thank you for it.\"
I can already see all the peace in my heart :)


And if you believe pointing someone to some stupid chicken would eventually lead to goodwill of humanity, then you seriously need to rethink over your idealistic world views :P
Not going to happen. Someone will most likely learn to take advantage of other people.

[zanzibar]

Draklar, open minded as always.

[Draklar]

Zanzibar, posting worthless stuff as always.

But I also found a serious logical flaw in this belief:

Originally posted by zanzibar
No peace in the world without peace in the nations
No peace in the nations without peace in the town
No peace in the town without peace in the home
No peace in the home without peace in the heart
- Tao Te Ching

Well maybe not as much logical flaw, as something that proves all those lines to be without any worth.
Only one line: \"There cannot be peace in the world\"
Peace in the world is utopia and can\'t be achieved since there\'s always some people who will use attempts to bring it to life for their own gain. Even if everyone are getting lots of things and there\'s general peace, human needs are infinite and they will reach for more, even if doing so will cause everyone (including them) to get less. I know that for a fact :)

So to sum it up: Trust between people who proved each other that they are worthy of trust is the only rational human behaviour. Trying to change that won\'t change anything and most likely cause further cases of mistrust. That\'s why seeing people giving informations about the quest is something to be expected, whilst \"goodwill\" of giving such informations to people we don\'t know enough, is a serious risk of helping someone that by all means shouldn\'t be helped. Much rather taught that to achieve something, you have to play nice with other people ;)

[zanzibar]

Draklar, you\'re a very intelligent guy, but you could stand to have more heart in your world-view.  The idea is that utopia is impossible because we are all individually imperfect beings, and if we had \"peace\" in our hearts as individuals then collectively we would become something much greater.

So you\'re right -- there cannot be peace in the world, so long as there is not peace in the hearts of individuals.

[Draklar]

Well if by peace in heart you understand state without any needs or feelings (so the only stae when no struggles between people is possible), then I assume you\'re talking about something like nirvana. But I don\'t treat such state as \"human\" thing and compare it to killing yourself (especially recalling a text about someone in such state being found during WWII... how creepy :/ ) ... So in a way everyone being in the state of nirvana is like killing all the people. Well with everyone killed, there will be peace too. So there\'s a real flaw in the logic. There can be peace wihout peace in heart... without heart (life) at all ;)
For a normal human being, with all the feelings and needs, no matter what happens - peace isn\'t possible.

But either way, you can\'t expect people to behave such way in a world similar to medieval Europe. It\'s completely different culture. Even if your character feels a need to help others and try to make life better, you can\'t expect same from the majority :)

[zanzibar]

I think that while you\'re saying something which is interesting, the topic is wandering.  I think the quote I gave has substance to it, and I think you just agreed with me but chose to concentrate on things that we may or may not agree upon.

[shorty13]

someone should lock this thread because it was made a while ago expecting a simple answer and now it is totally off topic.

[Karyuu]

Nobody \"owns\" threads :P They don\'t get locked unless the posts become completely hostile or inappropriate, they don\'t get deleted unless entire threads are like that, and they don\'t get moved unless they look like they would work better in another forum section. All discussions evolve, so let them be.

[zanzibar]

Originally posted by shorty13
someone should lock this thread because it was made a while ago expecting a simple answer and now it is totally off topic.

Don\'t like it?
Don\'t read it.

[Zan]

Originally posted by Draklar

Originally posted by zanzibar

Originally posted by Karyuu
I fail to see how helping someone get a gold ring or a groffel will serve \"the good of humanity.\" But that\'s just me

You don\'t think making people happy is a noble cause?

Haha, zanzibar logics xD
\"The good of humanity\" is when you do something that would affect whole human population. Pointing someone to where he can buy a chicken is hardly bringing goodwill to the whole humanity

First you point a  few people in the right way, those point a few other people in the right way, and so on and so forth. Before you know it the entire population can get chicken and world hunger is removed from the face of Yliakum.

Sorry for this brief intermezzo .. you can go back to arguing with eachother now

[Draklar]

Originally posted by Zan
First you point a  few people in the right way, those point a few other people in the right way, and so on and so forth. Before you know it the entire population can get chicken and world hunger is removed from the face of Yliakum. :P

Human needs are infinite. Resources aren\'t.
That\'s one flaw in this logic :P

Another is, why do you think people who won\'t bother to figure things out by themselves, will bother to help others? ;)

[zanzibar]

Originally posted by Draklar

Originally posted by Zan
First you point a  few people in the right way, those point a few other people in the right way, and so on and so forth. Before you know it the entire population can get chicken and world hunger is removed from the face of Yliakum.

Human needs are infinite. Resources aren\'t.
That\'s one flaw in this logic

Another is, why do you think people who won\'t bother to figure things out by themselves, will bother to help others?

Human needs are not infinite.

Desire, on the other hand, seems limitless, but it is controllable.

[Draklar]

Originally posted by zanzibar
Human needs are not infinite.

Yes, they are infinite.
You consider \"need\" to be what people \"must\" have in order to live, but I refer to the economic (so more relevant in this case) sense of it.
In economic sense, to get a chicken is only a basic need. But the more you get, the more you want. Look at Planeshift. To be happy people needed pets. But will they be happy now? Nooo they\'ll want more and more stuff, still.

Actually, don\'t let people get those groffels, or they\'ll whine about lack of something else :P

Edit: Bad wording :\\

[zanzibar]

Originally posted by Draklar

Originally posted by zanzibar
Human needs are not infinite.

Yes, they are infinite.
You consider \"need\" to be what people \"must\" have in order to live, but I refer to the economic (so more relevant in this case) sense of it.
In economic sense, to get a chicken is only a basic need. But the more you get, the more you want. Look at Planeshift. To be happy people needed pets. But will they be happy now? Nooo they\'ll want more and more stuff, still.

Actually, don\'t let people get those groffels, or they\'ll whine about lack of something else

Edit: Bad wording :\\

Need in this sense is but a social construction.  Group definitions are malleable through the processes of human agency.

And how are people getting groffels?  With the super client down,  you shouldn\'t be able to finish the quest.