I am perfectly sure that the entire history can only be OOC. The way it is written, the detail that is provided allows for this conclusion only, including one point:
If you talk to the Laanx priests, they will deny Talads existance, which is perfectly in line with what Laanx would want them to believe (after all, he doesn\'t want anyone to believe in Talad). This makes it impossible for anything like the history page\'s story to actually emerge. What would happen is that two distinctly different stories emerge, one for Laanx, one for Talad, and none of these stories would therefore try to give an explanation for what happened before Laanx and Talad split. In fact, both would claim that there was no split because there was never another god. IOW, they would extrapolate backwards from the current state, and in doing so there can never be a merger.
It is possible to say that the NPC talk isn\'t matched with the settings well, so that the priests may very well recognise the other god\'s existance. This would then allow saying that the roman and greek gods and stories were made up by their priests. However, an important difference is that both Talad and Laanx actually do exist, and thus did actually, provably, interact with their followers. Just think of the temple Talad built for himself.
This means that freedom of the priests and population to create and make up gods and stories for them is severely reduced, making anything like the history page highly unlikely to be devised and even less possible to spread to more than a few crazy individuals. By no means can such a thing become common knowledge, even less be generally accepted, given the obvious lack of support by the priests.
Originally posted by amogorkon
The black Flame is out of the equation because it appeared outside Yliakum and only after Laanx and his followers (literally ) left that place, so it can\'t be known in Yliakum.
That`s only one point I have forgotten to mention. Why is the Black Flame mentioned in the char creation if it (after the official history) it is not known to the normal ylian? It is mereley a sidenote, now. I guess that this has to be clearified in the coming books.
Indeed I have wondered about that as well, but I have reached the conclusion that it is either because
eventually it\'ll be possible to be born outside Yliakum, like in Pradesha (with limitations: only Xacha, and if BF is selected, you will have no chance of getting put into Yliakum on creation), or because the char creation is mostly temporary filler (it does look like that because nothing in it has any reference to the website, neither does the website give any hint at anything in the CC. They\'re disjoint and independant. Worse, none needs the other.).
Originally posted by amogorkon
Another point I forgot:
Laanx and Talad are bound to Vodul. Are divine pacts brakeable? Who would punish if it was broken? And if it is not been broken it is highly unlikely that Vodul is not intervening at all. At least both, Laanx and Talad has to fulfill their side of the pact by serving.. how is this expressed?
I think they can be broken, and it is likely that it was broken. Laanx and Talad wanted to be shown how to make people. Laanx spied on Vod?l and achieved that goal, so subsequently the pact would have no benefit to her anymore. Also, assuming that Vod?l is just as similar to humans as Laanx and Talad, his use of Laanx as lover wouldn\'t be platonic, and thus it\'d be unlikely that he\'d be interested in what remains of Laanx.
Originally posted by amogorkon
An all-powerful and all-knowing god could only exist on it\'s own, as more than one would not make any sort of sense and wouldn\'t be discernible in any way, which would mean they\'d appear as one anyway.
That`s not true. An omniscient being could exist indeed on its own. And foreseeing the future doesnt bring the power to change it.
I was trying to say that a being that is both omnipotent
and omniscient could only exist once, since, were they more, they would either be doing the same things, share the job, or stall each other.
Whether knowing the future brings power to change it depends on how well you know it. If you know it very well, and also retain knowledge of what the future would have been before you changed things, then you can obviously modify the present to yield the desired future.
Example: had Vodĺ known the future, he would have known that Laanx was spying on him and that she would eventually succeed in mimicking him. He would then also ave known when and how Laanx was spying and could perfectly easily prevented her from ever succeeding.
Vod?ls intentions aren\'t clear, but he seems very selfish, so he wouldn\'t likely give up his hold on Laanx and Talad so easily.
Granted, there are some caveats like \"he wanted them to have that fate and be able to blame it solely on them so he tricked them.\". Wouldn\'t make him better, though, but it would still show that knowing the future
does allow changing it.
Originally posted by amogorkon
In fact this is one way to explain the evil in the theodicy. Maybe I should have explained a bit about the theodicy.
The theodicy is the question why there is evil in the world. There are several possibilities to answer:
Either god is not all-good, means he brings evil (catastrophes, criminalism and everything else which \"punishes\" people who didnt \"deserve\" it from our point of view). Another possibity is to restrict the gods power by other beings with the same level of power. This is the case in many religions. Two or more concurrenting powers struggle in an neverending fight.
Another possibility is that god is omnipotent but not all-knowing. He created everything and lost control over the ongoings in detail. But still he has those powers.
Depends on how \"being omnipotent\" is defined. If you define it as \"in theory being able to do anything\", then yes. If you define it as \"be able make your wishes come true\", then not.
Originally posted by amogorkon
It would have been more interesting to have an omnipotent god against an omniscient one ;-)
In fact I see the analogies to the greek and roman theology, too. But before I assume things which will be revised after having rped it already I take the official history by word.
This is assuming that they\'re like the mainstream RL gods just as much as assuming it\'s like the roman gods.
Originally posted by amogorkon
Likely they already have their followers elsewhere and don\'t bother. Maybe they even have some sort of territorial agreement.
One could think that. But if they still exist it wouldnt be far for Laanx to make an intrigue against Talad involving the other gods.
To me it looks like the other gods are a lot more powerful and whatnot than Laanx and Talad so that none of them could actually be bothered to take sides in their petty disputes except thinking \"Grow up, kids!\".
Originally posted by amogorkon
Given that this description may still not refer to physical existance, it is possibel that they existed and lived anywhere.
How do you explain the \"thick red cloak\" then? It doesnt seem to me much metaphorical in this context.
Obviously gods interact with each other in something that is
like a physical representation. Therefore, the cloak doesn\'t need to be metaphorical. It, however, isn\'t physical in the common sense, either (though it
could be since Laanx did travel the stone labyrinths, which means he didn\'t necessarily use any divine power, especially since the Xacha were able to follow).
Originally posted by amogorkon
Given that they existed before they were worshipped, lack of worshipping wouldn\'t likely make them cease to exist, though.
*snicker* As long as they don`t commit suicide... *imagines Laanx whining \"nobody worships me...\"*
ROFL!
)
Originally posted by amogorkon
Given that a god can come into existance at any point in time, one can easily be \"young\" compared to other gods. The roman and other religions provide more similarity.
In those religions gods doesn`t \"come into existance\". They get created and born like other beings. And in fact in each of those religions there is one god who \"came into existance\" at first and which is the \"unmoved mover\". Who is it in PS? I doubt it is Vogul because he already seems pretty omniscient to me.
I also don\'t think that that would be Vod?l, as he doesn\'t strike me as powerful nor wise enough.
As for coming into existance: being born is one option, transcending, as has been said, another, and if one god can come into existance, there is no real reason why others couldn\'t, though I, too, don\'t know of one example for that in RL mythology, if we don\'t count the incorporation of foreign gods into other religions.
