Money related Ideas

[Aduin]

Ok, a few things to mention:

a) Link, nice Mag in your picture. =)

b) The idea of a credit note, while it does eliminate some problems, it also causes others. If someone wanted to but an item from another player, a credit note wouldn\'t be useful, unless that chaecter was then able to trade the credit note in for gold. Which completely kills the whole reason for doing the credit note, which is so that others don\'t end up with the money.

c) Tornado, That\'s the way loans work in real life. You take out some money, use it to start a business, or something, then pay the money back over time, generaly with interest added on. You take the loan to give yourself the boost you need to get going, and then once you\'re on your way you can pay it back.

d) The karma idea isn\'t a bad one. The only issue(this was raised in the thieves post as well,) is how do we define/determine karma? In UO it was based solely on what you killed, but clearly there are other things that you can do to gain karma besides killing things. Let\'s say someone wants to start an alchemist shop. If they were an alchemist, they probably wouldn\'t be out killing things very often. Then they\'d probably have to take a loan out to start a shop up, but how could they get that loan without killing things first for karma? A karma system will be valuable, but it will be tough to implement well.

[Aruneko]

I think we should leave the deciding of the karma system to all those other threads invovling karma.

Perhaps while you are borrowing your karma gradually deteriorates as you take longer and longer to return it.  Maybe when you lose a pre-specified amount of karma, the gaurds come to reclaim the money, and if you can\'t pay you will either end up in jail or you will die.

[BaretteDeBeurre]

My previous experience with guilds was they are very effective in loaning/ giving items and money, and very effective in dealing with any who abuse the prviliages of a guild bank.. etc.

but in a game where PK is only able in arena with the 2 players\' accord, how do you deal with abusers?

About the credit note, only the player you loaned money should have it; when he pays something with it, it\'s discounted from his note, money is given to the seller, that would come directly from the bank\'s money. Ans the player should pay back with interests later.

Being late in loan payback should get down your \'karma\' as Aruneko said.

Karma will be implemented but in the form of alignement. Thus i don\'t know how it will work, but i think it\'ll be the same type of idea.

[Aruneko]

So you\'re saying that the credit note is basically a credit card.

[BaretteDeBeurre]

like i said first......

a credit note that only the character named on it could use(like a credit card)  

......yes

[Xaminor]

well,

1. i seldom if ever loan/give, etc to beggers

2. i will not loan unless i condsider it
    a gift.  ( a principle in real life as well.)
    at first a small amount and if not repaid, then
    no more.
3.  in guilds and with guild banks dealing with abuse
    is easy.  No repayment, no guild membership.

peace

xam

[Vengeance]

I\'m still iffy on the idea, but I like the personal favorite card the best here.

Thanks,
- Venge

[Aduin]

My argument still stands though, that a credit note is effectively useless. You proposed the idea to keep people from abusing the loan system, yet anyone that takes out a loan in this case won\'t be able to buy something from another player, killing(at least in part) trade between players. If you were to allow people to trade the credit note to other players, and they get the money off of it, it doesn\'t solve the issue of exloit. The real good way to avoid this abuse, is the idea to implement some kind of time restriction, so your charecter has to have been arround for 2-3 or more weeks before you can take out a loan. This is really, the only way to keep people from making a mule charecter, taking out a loan, giving the cash to their main charecter, and then forgetting about the mule charecter. I think it is actually impossible to avoid exploit without the previously mentioned possibility of banning. It\'s extreme, but it\'ll work.

[Jessyn]

I would think that the one bank should exist as a mint and currency exchange, and not as a loan franchise, for several reasons:

1) a karma, time based, or \"level\" based credit rating would be difficult to implement and possible to circumvent.

2) Having a PC being the moneylender adds more of an RP element to the game, for both the loaner, and the loanee.

3) if both parties were to use a digital contract that would be \"signed\" by both their characters, as well as similar reciepts, any disputes would be fairly easy to resolve, minimizing the time Immortals would be occupied settling finacial disputes.

4) such a system could also be implemented for buying an item fram a PC in payments.

5) I can make more of a profit if I can lend money and be assured of it\'s repayment.


Jessyn

[David_HD]

Um... If I were to change my MAC address, there\'s no way you could tell that I\'m still the same person...
Banning,  in my case, 169.233.*.* would cut all of the dorms at UCSC off the game. I certainly don\'t want to be denied access because some idiot at my school tried to mule....

Originally posted by Link
Sure, you can change your ip, or it changes automatically, but the first and most of the time, second set of numbers don\'t change, Unless you change ISPs or use Proxies (very bad for games) then you can easily ban someone from a game by banning those first two sets of numbers if your ip was 68.256.45.245 and you can get it changed it would most likely change to something like 68.256.45.279 the first two sets would stay the same so they could just ban 68.256.* and most likely take care of you, Or they can call your ISP and get your personal info and call Mom and tell her what your doing and also notify your ISP of what you are doing. Works when you have script kiddies attacking your IRC network with DoS clones anyways. I don\'t know if evading bans is against any laws but if they complain to the ISP enough they will suspend your service.

[David_HD]

Originally posted by Aduin
The real good way to avoid this abuse, is the idea to implement some kind of time restriction, so your charecter has to have been arround for 2-3 or more weeks before you can take out a loan.

I agree, to a point. If the only criteria is time, then it would be possible to create a character on a second computer and just have it sit around for that amount of time. The only solutions are either having the player invest work in bettering the character before they can get a loan by setting a minimum level, or doing it on a player-player basis. Both of these have their drawbacks, but neither is really easily circumventable.

[Jessyn]

what ARE the drawbacks of PvP lending?

Jessyn

[David_HD]

Originally posted by Jessyn

what ARE the drawbacks of PvP lending?

Jessyn

Well, to begin with, there can\'t be much of it until the game has been around a little while...

[Jessyn]

of course, you\'d get that too, with the system you\'re proposing, verifying a char by having them wait 2-3 weeks.  after 2-3 weeks, i plan to be rich anyways, through grunt work, so...  

Let the first few make their way up the financial ladder the hard way, because once they do, they will be rewarded with a temporary monopoly on money lending, besides, i\'d rather borrow money from another player than a computer, and i think most of you would agree with me on that.

[David_HD]

Maybe set limits on how much money you can borrow based on your level, as opposed to just all or nothing? Like starting out you could borrow enough for a little bit better sword or something, which may prove useful to you, but would be pretty much worthless to anyone who has been around a while. Only after the player has invested enough effort in the character could they borrow sizeable sums of money, and perhaps only if they have a good credit rating?