Can the avarage PS being read?

[Stephen McNaire]

Just wondering. From a world setting standpoint (And because I\'m writing a story about a scholar dwarf and need to know for that), can the average PS being read? I know we as the gamers obviously can:P, but is PS the kind of world where our charecters might not? Where most beings can\'t read and it\'s something special?

[Kythag]

Kythag has an Intelligence of 33 and a Will of 18.  He should have the equivalent of not being able to dial 1-800-abcdefg.  I think it is brilliant!  Kythag is a minmaxed character.  He has 140 Strength and 110 Endurance from character creation and the above mental stats.  It would be a wonderful way to discourage minmaxing by making it impossible for Kythag to become a great swordsman because he can\'t read necessary materials to advance beyond a certain point!

Likewise, a minmaxed wizard or thief, would not be capable of completing certain physical or mental requirements(haven\'t put a lot of thought into this, it\'s just what I believe) to excel in their craft.  Some of my favorite roleplayed characters, some not my own, were incredibly stupid, clumsy, or weak.  One stupid character knew 9 words of the \"Common tongue\".  We had to communicate with him and he with us.  That\'s roleplaying!  

Please add an element of reading(and other factors) that requires certain levels of agility, strength, andintelligence to pass on to excellence with our characters.  I think it would create a better roleplaying environment because it would stagnant the \"power players\" who \"minmax\" to gain an advantage, instead of seeing roleplaying opportunities.

Kythag

[Shadeslayer]

Interesting idea! Though that would make my char Besyleth Shadeslayer ideal for roleplaying! His INT is around 70...making him neither wise nor dumb...but his will is 90+, making him try hard to communicate with others.

Also...it would be nice to need higher INT to understand what others are saying from another race...like a Demorian will understand a Demorian but an Enki? Thus it may increase realism but I think will lower RP by not being able to communicate with others...or the simple fact that the Crystals \"Magical Radiation\" causes everyone to speak the same language

[Zan]

If I remember correctly all the intelligent (playable) races in Yliakum speak one global language so you wouldn\'t have difficulties understanding a Klyros as a Dermorian etc.

The reading remark is interesting ... perhaps it would be nice to have all books appear as jibberish until your character learns how to read. Unless they have in their past of course (read: it is a part of the generated character history). I don\'t think the ability to read should be directly related to a characters intelligence stat though. Reading is just a matter of being taught or not. Of course a smarter char would have a much easier time learning to read than a dumber one but aside from that everyone should be able to learn if they want to. Teaching people how to read could be a task for the teacher jobs.
We also have a mind slot which will allow us to utilize the information of certain books, this is related to your character\'s intelligence and a dumber char won\'t be able to put the information into something practical.

[Kythag]

While reading is something that can be taught, there are those without the mental capacity to learn to read.  There are also levels at which reading at more advanced levels becomes too much for a basic reader.  I have a relative who cannot read at all because she does not have the capacity to learn this skill.  I also know others who can read, but the skill is very poor despite having been a reader for over 40 - 50 years!

My point is that picking low intelligence scores to max out physical stats through character creation manipulation should be punished.  I have seen too many people in pen and paper roleplaying try to do this, then play their intelligence instead of the character\'s.  Certain books could have a reading level criteria that is easily scripted.  These could be tests to pass to a higher level of ability in a certain skill.  Big dumb galoots like Kythag would  not be able to be the best fighters because the best fighters can learn to read and use that to gain a better understanding of how to use a sword.

I think the issue goes to game balance and making people focus on the roleplaying aspects of their character instead of the minmaxers out there who do so for the ability to advance to riches quicker because  they can kill more.  I originally minmaxed Kythag because I like to test the limits a game will allow me(and others) to go so I am prepared for what can be encountered, but now he is my favorite character from a roleplaying aspect(see other threads for reason why).  Roleplaying a dumb galoot can be comic relief(some players find it annoying, Kythag sorry).

Kythag

[Draklar]

Originally posted by Kythag
It would be a wonderful way to discourage minmaxing by making it impossible for Kythag to become a great swordsman because he can\'t read necessary materials to advance beyond a certain point!

Reading books certainly isn\'t way to train swordsmanship...
Intelligence can be important factor in fighting, but not because of ability to read.

Anyway, right now Intelligence is such an easily accessable factor, that I would guess regular inhabitant of Yliakum can read.
If there\'s so many mages then it would be odd for regular characters to not be able to do it.

[Stephen McNaire]

Right now the whole system is being messed with too much to really come up with a definite.
But being a mage wouldn\'t mean you have to be able to read. Magic could be taught like swordmanship could, from one person to another. Maybe if you have the reading skill you could find special spells in books or stuff like that.
I think maybe all characters with an average int level would probably know how to read a little, but most books would be beyond them. It could open a new job field for people like me. People could pay us scribes and scholars to do \'research\' for them if they want to know something.
Or maybe it could be that there would be ancient script in old books that only someone with a high enough \'scholar\' skill could read.

In most fantasy worlds the average Joe can\'t read, they\'re too busy trying to survive to spend time on it. Not to mention that books are rare and very expensive. Most people couldn\'t afford it, like a farmer or something.
Characters rich enough could hire a NPC \'tutor\' to instruct them in basic reading skills. However I think it would cost mainly money and not progression points because killing rats is not a way to learn to spell:p.

[Edit] One more thought. If you don\'t want to lose the books in the library on basic stuff, you could make it so they were special magical books created by a powerful mage some untold years ago. These books glow and can be read by anyone.

[Godfrey]

Originally posted by Draklar
Reading books certainly isn\'t way to train swordsmanship...

Ha!  Tell that to Hanko D?bringer, Fiore de\' Liberi, Peter von Danzig, Mertin Siber, and all the other medi?val swordmasters who wrote fechtb?cher and combat manuals!

(Yeah, okay, practice and tutelage under someone who knows what he\'s doing is pretty essential too... but I know a guy who tours the country teaching 15th-century fighting techniques which he reconstructed from Fiore\'s treatise Flos duellatorum in armis.)

[Kythag]

Reading is always a path to training.  There are some things that cannot be taught by books, but there are some things that can only be imparted with the written word(ancient fighting techniques as in Godfrey\'s example.)  The idea, again, is to stop people from creating exceptionally strong characters without roleplaying the diminished intelligence levels that naturally go with it.

While some magicks can be imparted through person to person teachings, only reading will allow the knowledge to translate magical texts in other languages.  The character creation rules have a special interest section that includes focused reading abilities.  I am only suggesting that the original idea of this thread be expanded upon to create a greater game balance.

Kythag

[Draklar]

Originally posted by Godfrey
Ha!  Tell that to Hanko D?bringer, Fiore de\' Liberi, Peter von Danzig, Mertin Siber, and all the other medi?val swordmasters who wrote fechtb?cher and combat manuals!

For someone to write scripts on swordfighting, he first has to learn to fight, no? the primal knowledge of fighting came from manual practice, not reading books.
Writing one came after learning it the normal way, so that\'s not an argument. Scripts can be used to regain long-forgotten art of fighting (as in they\'re useful only if you don\'t know anyone who is experienced already), but that\'s not the case in a medieval world.

[Stephen McNaire]

Ok, after listening to all you guys, here\'s my conclusion\\thoughts:

No, the average PS character cannot read, beyond perhaps writing his/her\'s name.
Certain jobs might require you to learn to read as you go through PS:

Fighter\\Warrior: Not really. You learn to fight by example. The one reading the texts would be the NPC instructor, not you. Unless you were an intellectual fighter, but only noblemen and archbaddies are like that;).

Mages: Yeah, probably. But maybe not the normal PS language? Perhaps mages learn a whole different language of Runes or something.

Alchemist: Maybe an Ancient script and the normal PS script?

Grunt jobs (Blacksmith, potter, miner): No. Why would you? Your job doesn\'t require it. Unless maybe if you\'re a magical blacksmith and then it would be the Mages Runes.

Intellectual jobs (Like painter and architect): Maybe. Depends on the Rping of the character.

This is all academic since there is no cap on reading(yet). But it would definitely make the RPing more realistic if your character needed to find aid to read something because its life would\'ve had no need for the skill. In a harsh world like PS, you would only learn what you needed to do your job. Frivolous luxuries are few and far between.

But first and foremost for me is that I simply need to know for my story;). Which no one has read yet *Sniff*.

[lucifeir]

Ya i guess they can read but you never know!

[Karyuu]

Please do not post simply to raise your post-count, lucifeir :) Your contribution really didn\'t contribute anything at all.

[Godfrey]

Originally posted by Draklar
Writing one came after learning it the normal way, so that\'s not an argument. Scripts can be used to regain long-forgotten art of fighting (as in they\'re useful only if you don\'t know anyone who is experienced already), but that\'s not the case in a medieval world.

Okay, if you say so.  )  Actually, combat manuals were in great demand by nobles who wanted to learn to fight but didn\'t want to pay to employ a sword master, or who had a basic knowledge of combat but wanted to expand their horizons... but that would be real-life Earth history, which need not be the case in Ylakium.

Obviously it was no substitute for actually training under a master -- but think of how many people nowadays buy self-help and get-rich-quick books rather than going to a competent therapist or getting a business degree.

[Draklar]

Yeah, if you want it cheap then sure. Considering the setting of Planeshift would allow books to cost less than normal training, but I believe normal training is really expensive anyway. Still, I\'d rather train with a professional after reading all this material anyway.

But I\'d give my logics studying as example. Our logics lecturer also published his book that we now use for studying of the subject. But if you compare how easy it is to learn from that guy and from that book, the latter seems really useless :P

Good thing nowadays you can download translated scripts off the internet for free and train at knighthoods at really low prices ^^