I searched the world over...

[Kythag]

I searched this thoroughly and found nothing.  I used spawn, camping, owning, and various combinations to no result, so I am making this thread.  Feel free to move it(I am sure you do ) if this fits elsewhere.

What is the etiquette on sharing a spawn with other players?  There was an incident I was involved in where the /say command didn\'t reach a players ears, so he treated me like a spawn stealer.  This is reason for the question:  There were 3 trepors, did I really have to ask to share that spawn?  

Whenever I am using multiple spawns to level and someone comes along I share the spawn without being asked.  I respected the idea that he wanted to be asked(when I discovered there was a miscommunication problem), but I am confused for this reason as well:  Why ask, are you going to say no?  

If it is proper etiquette to ask, the /say command\'s reach desperately needs to be extended.  If I can\'t use /say in the trepor pit without not reaching across the pit, then it definitely needs extending anyway, regardless of this topic\'s discussion.

Looking forward to a useful discussion on this.

Kythag

[zanzibar]

No one has the right to any spawn point, or even to any particular kill.  Someone can be waiting for ten minutes next to a spawn point, then just as it spawns you can run up and kill the creature, as long as you do it with a physical attack.

It\'s extremely rude and obnoxious, but it\'s legal.

There are idiots that freak out and will write half a dozen petitions about you using three different characters for anything close to it whether it\'s by accident or not.  I\'ve had this happen to me.  (Well, it was three petitions by two characters both controlled by the same player.)  The thing is, even if I had done it on purpose, it\'s entirely legal.

What you can NOT do however is use the arrow spell to steal a monster from someone else.  That means using the arrow spell to interupt a physical attack, blocking the other guy from attacking it, then proceding to finish off the creature with a physical attack.  That\'s kill stealing.

[Kythag]

I am aware that walking up and smacking a creature away from someone is legal(just extremely rude).  My point: Should I have to ask to be considered unrude?  I usually ask(especially where spawns are very close), but I usually go treading toward the lone trepor and let the first player have the other two(he/she was there first) in the arena trepor pit.

My point is that I do not, under any circumstances, want to be rude.  I am trying to determine if there is an unwritten protocol I have been breaking, if a protocol has been established, and(if one has not been established) opening dialogues for creating one to avoid the unfortunate misunderstanding that occurred in the arena pit.

Kythag

[Karyuu]

If there are three or so open spawns, \"spawn stealing\" isn\'t even an issue. No one owns an entire area (much less the spawns themselves, as Zanzibar stated), so you can\'t possibly be rude if you try to situate yourself by a creature no one else is attacking or waiting near. I think it\'s rather silly to have to ask someone who is moving through multiple spawns if they can share ;) Conflicts arise when there are no spawns open at all. And remember: if there is ever a real misunderstanding, sending a /tell to the other party usually takes care of it. If it doesn\'t, usually nothing will.

[zanzibar]

If it\'s obvious that someone is after something, then I leave them be.  If I take a kill they were after without realizing it and they freak out, I don\'t think much about it.  If someone goes for one of my kills, I don\'t get upset, I just see it as being competitive.

Everyone is different. Everyone gets offended by different things.

[Kythag]

So when I didn\'t ask and this guy started running back and forth taking all the trepor, he was being rude(but legal)?  That is what I am getting from this discussion so far.

The reason this concerns me is this:  I believe that community spirit makes or breaks these games.  This is my third MMORPG(CO and GW being the first two), and I have left both over these community spirit issues.  When the community starts getting cutthroat and greedy, I leave.  I am the first to be cutthroat and greedy in character(if I have that type of character), but this wasn\'t a roleplay situation.

So I ask now:  Was this guy being greedy?  (At this point I must explain that his inventory was full, and I picked up the spare Trepor parts.)  So he might have believed that I was going to steal all the trepors or that I didn\'t deserve any, etc.

And, Karyuu, I have resolved to use /tells in these situations, but I would like to see the /say command addressed(it also caused a misunderstanding with Cha0s and a certain possessed blacksmith...

Kythag

[derwoodly]

In other comercial MMORPG\'s idividual spawns are not considered seperate from a \"camp\"  If five or six monsters spawn in a small area that is considered a camp.  If you are killing monsters (or mobs) in order to level up (called leveling or exping by some) and you can take the whole camp as fast as they spawn then the camp is normally considered yours.  If you have to rest inbetween fights in order to gain back mana and health then you are not really in control of that camp.

That is just a definition and does not address the protocol for  solving disputes.  In other games there are enough monsters to go arround.  In Planeshift the camps are few and far between, so the idea of one player controlling 6 spawn points is considered exstreamly rude.

The norm in my experience for Planeshift is one spawn point per player is all you are entitled to.  If you can kill more without steping on other peoples toes that is fine, but if there are others you are normally expected to share.

Planeshift is the only game I have ever played where people start killing mobs without saying a single word.  Anytime you aproch a player you should give some sort of greating, or at least type the /greet emote.  

Planeshift is not the only game with \"kill stealing issues\".  It is a major topic for MMORPG\'s.  A search with that title would get you more information than I could type out in this post.

I would like to point out, that none of the methods currently used are based on roleplay.  It is simply an exp grind.  If your where to roleplay your mass slaughter of Treepors then the issue of spawn camping could be resolved in character.  This does not mean you should tell every one that you are a great swordsman who needs to kill all of the creatures so they can become an even better swordsman.

[Nikodemus]

PS is roleplaying game where everythink is supposed to be IC. That is why some may say we have bigger problem with KS. KS is purelly ooc, people don\'t know how to behalve in such situation, because it NEVER happen in real. The only experience they have about it, is from other, but commercial MMOGs, thus ooc experience.
I agree with above posts, KS may be rude from ooc perspective, but legal.

[Drey]

On the whole spawn camping thing, as zanzibar said... no one owns any spawn, nor can they claim rights over it... the only form of kill stealin is done through bugs which im not even sure exist any more.

Having said that it is nice to show a little bit of manners and dont go charging in when someone is clearly already there.

[Cha0s]

Kythag: Yes, /say range needs to be increased. I propose 20-25 meter (it\'s 10 now, I think).

As for spawning-sharing... well, first, spawn-camping is really out-of-character. I don\'t blame the players for this one though. DaveG had some nifty ideas for this and I hope they get implemented. Until then, I\'d say that no one should \"claim\" more than one spawn. It just isn\'t fair to everyone else. But again, I don\'t like the spawn system in general. Hopefully it\'ll be reworked into DaveG\'s model soon.

[derwoodly]

In my humble opinion mass slaughter of monsters could be roleplayed.

For instance: Rats in the sewers.  This is obviously a public health hazard and the city could employ you to kill them.  You would first show up to a NPC incharge of public health (one close to the sewers, so even newbies would participate). That NPC would let you know how many rat hunters they had signed up for the day.  As a licenced rat hunter you would be paided per rat corpse.  I sugest this amount should be one or two trias more then you could get by selling to Harnquest the Blacksmith, or stop Harnquest from buying them at all.  Your licence would be good for one in game day then you would have to sign up again.  The number official rat catchers would be limited to 10 or 20 or something like that.  If you killed a rat and were not signed up then you would not be able to sell the pelts to the cities NPC and get paid top Tria.  As a rat catcher, it would be a free for all on the killing.  You would be expected to kill steal.  No one would own a spawn point, and disputes would be settled by combat.  Such is the life of a rat catcher. And also, Rats eyes should only be sold to that cook at the inn.

[Kythag]

While you are saying that no one owns a spawn, I had to leave the Trepor pit because this guy would not LET me kill even one Trepor.  He was killing two and getting back before the other could respawn so that he could own it too.  No one owns a spawn?  Don\'t you believe it.  My point is now this:  If this kind of behavior creeps into this game, it will jepardize many wonderful things that are being implemented here.

And why wouldn\'t he let me kill one trepor?  Because he thought I didn\'t ask him for permission to kill.  He was doing 200 damage per sword, and this discussion has convinced me that he was being elitist, cruel, and greedy.  My instinct is to go in game and show him there are ways in these games to make you suffer other than with a asword, but that would propagate more of this until it escalated into noithingness.

Instead I will continue to keep to my spawn, while someone can take the other one.  One more thing I\'d like to address.  There have been some individuals(after I started this thread) that have come up to me at a single spawn and asked me to share it.  I had spent 3 days waiting to get this popular spawn, and I did not feel like sharing.  I didn\'t press others when they had it, but here came people standing in aggro range to purposely make targetting that spawn harder.  I am very bitter about this one.  I was very patient with others hunting spawns for hours on end, but I couldn\'t get 5 minutes with one.

I now know what etiquette is expected and there are several who ignore what\'s right to do what\'s convenient.  Trust me when I say, you do not want me to create a character designed to steal spawns from people.  All I ask is this:  I don\'t crowd people when they are hunting, so don\'t crowd me. 3 trepors in a pit with 3 people is not a crowd, just as has been stated here(1 spawn, 1 character).

I also know people are going to say,\"It happens, people always do that, deal with it.\"  What if someone said,\"The Atlantic is filled with monsters, deal with it, Christopher.\"  How about,\"The moon is unreachable, deal with it.\"  Things never change as long as people are just \"dealing with it.\"  You have to reach to obtain, I am reaching for the ideal this game and its designers have set before us, and I see more and more efforts to pursue that ideal(yay for RMs).  This opinion of mine is based on what I think will help toward that goal.

Kythag

[zanzibar]

If someone is killing the spawn you\'re after, then switch one hand to melee and create this shortcut to attack:

\"/target_clear
/target next nearest npc
/attack
/attack 1
 \"

[Pestilence]

Planeshift is the only game I have ever played where people start killing mobs without saying a single word.  Anytime you aproch a player you should give some sort of greating, or at least type the /greet emote.  

LOL you must be kidding. In my experience this is the first one I joined where having so little monsters is an issue and where people actually talk sometimes.

[Drey]

Originally posted by Kythag
While you are saying that no one owns a spawn, I had to leave the Trepor pit because this guy would not LET me kill even one Trepor.  

what did he do eat you mouse and keyboard?

He was killing two and getting back before the other could respawn so that he could own it too.  

in this case, wait at one of the spawns.