Author Topic: GUI Wish thread  (Read 1761 times)

DaveG

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« Reply #15 on: December 14, 2005, 03:39:08 am »
Quote
Originally posted by Induane
Some documentation can be autogenerated.

We use doxygen stuff too.  PS API

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AryHann

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« Reply #16 on: December 14, 2005, 08:35:43 am »
@DaveG:
I know perfectly how that window looks. Thanks to a commit I have the unluck to have to use a magnifier to check out if what I am rolling over is really the mana bar or the stamina one ;-)

I really think that I have never said that the window before was the best you could have, as a matter of fact I was entitled to change it (and I was the first one this August suggesting several changes) :-), but I can assure you the latest window that is available is not better than the previous one and for clearly different reasons. If you cannot understand them, I really - again - suggest you to consult some basic HCI book (you can just check out one of the two manuals but if you want I have plenty I could suggest you).
If every game asks the players to worried to much about the GUI then they are games not realized for the user perspective and considering how many software applications are done respecting any usability principle it is not a surprising statement. Basically, just in the latest years this discipline has become important in software development and even companies are finally recruiting people just with that purpose (thing that before was not done at all).

And, yes, everybody agree that the previous one was taking space, but this one is \"unusable\" (using HCI terminology) as well. That is why it will be changed, yet again, in its own time and in its own way.

Anyway, I think that continuing arguing about it will not solve anything, considering that I could print here a book about how these things should be done and you could still try to convince me that the window as it is right now is perfect (but I don\'t believe so ;-) ).

@Induane: With sliding offscreen you mean that instead of being out of focus on the screen they should disappear (or become a little tiny line on the edge) and when you pass the mouse over them then you get the real window?
Would it be easy in your opinion to recognize and remember the position of the window you are going to look ? Is there a way that this information (which window is it) could be stored? Maybe a \"tooltip\"?
Personally, I think the chat window should be on top all the time since it contains information which should be read somehow (the game is still RPG oriented therefore I think \"communication\" is rather important). I agree with buddylist and shortcuts menu though, group window, etc.

The idea of having small icons for the shortcut window is nice (images are better than text if they are enough intuitive), but maybe reduce the costumization of it. I mean, there are tons of combinations you could use for a shortcut (and tons of new things that will probably be added in the game in the future, which makes the realization of new icons a quite \"heavy\" job). Maybe for the most \"popular ones\" there should be some icon for the others instead still the possibility of having text?

There is an editor for PAWS, pawseditor, which I think is available in CVS. Though, I have never used it (it was crashing at the time I was working on my own GUI for my own project).

I totally agree about the documentation. When I was working on Virtual Annel?v I had to write down in a notebook all the procedures I was using for adding things or simply for loading a map. Then, I was thinking I would have worked on some documentation after finished my thesis, but instead it hasn\'t been like that because atm the other problems (bugs and more bugs) have been taking the majority of my time.
PS API is nice but doesn\'t explain certain tricks or concepts you need to know for creating the world, for instance, in the way PS handles them better.
AryHann

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Induane

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« Reply #17 on: December 14, 2005, 01:50:12 pm »
Tooltips might not be a bad idea for the shortcuts menu especially - i.e. you have icons for everything but the name you give the shortcut appears when you hover the mouse over the icon.  And as for telling people what windows they were at when they are hidden, giving them a default place should work - people are always unfamiliar with gui\'s when they first encounter them - learnibility + usability + a teaspoon of appearance = a good interface.

You may be right about the chat window, but I\'d at least like to have the option of having it autohide or hide/unhide with the C button or somethjing.  It would be nice to be able to use the keyboard to bring windows sliding from the screen edges manually.

Nikodemus

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« Reply #18 on: December 14, 2005, 05:08:38 pm »
Induane: I did a post about shortcuts before in the thread which is linked at top of this one and which originally started this thread. I will quote myself.
Quote
Originally posted by Nikodemus
Make it so that, user can make as many shortcut windows as he wish with as many shortcuts in them as he set.
One could set it up in window which would also list created windows, allow to create new, delete and modify.

Further, in the current shortcutedit window, make option if the the background should be default or not. This way shortcuts could have eighter text only, text and unique background image or unique background image only.
There would be imput box where user would enter name of the image (eg blast.png, freeze.bmp or heal.tga). The images would be stored in one of the planeshift directories.
This directory wouldn\'t be zipped like the skins are. It is really annoying to edit them and the saved space is really minimal as all the GUI images are png format which are compressed already (also partially transparent pngs are larger than original after zipped ;) )
This way would allow for altering not liked images and creating new.

P.S. As for vieving the available images, you may make ingame simple tool or left it to players who can use not ps related image vieving program.

Basically, I don\'t like your idea about eliminating text from shortcuts completly (tooltips aren\'t good alternative). You miss the fact it may be of dfferent use. The code for this is already done, so why delete it?

Also, http://www.freepgs.com/crimsonorder/things/ps-mc/niko-keybindings.zip as temporary solution for you if you want key for open/close chat window.

DaveG: As for the chat window text too big:
The question is: To scale or not to scale ;). I say, if scale, scale only this what need to be scalled. In chat window the tab labels should be scalled as the graphics under them are scalled. The rest of text should not be scaled, as  when graphics scale, it don\'t look bad.

Similiar thing may be done about shortcuts, although as always, there should be more options to customize in its .xml.

Here is my chat.xml: http://www.freepgs.com/crimsonorder/things/ps-mc/chat.xml



What you can failure tommorow, failure today.


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Aznakh

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« Reply #19 on: December 14, 2005, 06:40:04 pm »
I still think that interlocking the windows like palettes in certain apps is a viable solution.
Another thing which bothers me (on the OS X version at least, don\'t know about the other ones) is that the shortcut menu (the one on top with all those icons) eats up 15% of my screen. It is nice to be able to collapse it however I think it would be simpler to make it just a bar instead of having it on the left and on the top of your screen. Espsecially that your avarage user wouldn\'t know how to implement another skin.
Because as a player also it is nice to be able to leave that menu open at all times because it allows to access vital information fast.

DaveG

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« Reply #20 on: December 14, 2005, 11:06:19 pm »
Arianna:
I don\'t think the window is perfect either:
  • The buttons and stuff need to be moved somewhere else.  Acraig suggested having a slider for the stance, and showing an icon for the current one.  We could put the stance, spell power, and target into another window which could be placed wherever.
  • I\'m sorry, but mana needs to be blue.  :/  It\'s just not recognizable anymore.
  • The staminas don\'t need progress bars.  They should be some other sort of indicator, maybe a progressively dimming dot or something.
  • The time needs to be changed to an icon, with full text on tooltip.

Though, this version is better than the previous.  I don\'t understand what you mean when you say you need a magnifying glass; I can read it just fine.  (could be a scaling issue?...)  But, again I say:  I know it will be chagned.  I can edit these files rather easily, and we can change these things as we go allong.

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Cherppow

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« Reply #21 on: December 17, 2005, 07:52:18 am »
Hello

Some of my thoughts:

-Mouse surely affects the gui a lot. Would be good to make better use of it if possible. More specifically, functions such as dragging, pointing, hovering, doubleclicking, tooltip, and possible middle button/wheel. Also, left mouse click could be quite intelligent. Eg. looking and moving items could be more natural. Character description could be changed by doubleclicking the char portrait. Same for the quest/petition description; could appear at hover, and be customizable by doubleclick. Point being: Using intelligent mouse, we could remove many clumsy buttons from the windows.

-Money icons could be smaller and show the amount better.

-Windows could only be selectable by their visible area. (not from the transparent areas of the rectangle)

-Window titlebars could be removed or integrated into the window. (right now it\'s hard to make titlebar and window backdrop images match)

-Window scaling is quite problematic for backdrops images.

-Environmental info = <3

(tooltip for exact values)

I support the icons for shortcuts idea. With players able to add more icons, even more. I think the default PS icons (64x64px) are a bit too big for that purpose though. Items or spells could be dragged into the shortcut bar to make a shortcut. I think Neverwinter Nights has a nice system there.
I\'d also like a \"hide gui\" key, that would toggle whole gui invisible/visible with a single click for eg. screenshots or first person adventure.

Ps. Poor Ary, everyone pouring their thoughts on her. :> Anyway, I have confidence in both acraig and Arianna, the gui is in good hands.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2005, 07:54:25 am by Cherppow »