wipe??

[Karyuu]

Originally posted by Verrliit
I have to wonder why it would make any difference to you what we talk about and for how long.

Because I am a moderator, Verrliit, and if you\'d care to notice, past threads have always included veiled insults, open personal attacks, and a clear lack of solving anything. What do you hope to say that the development team hasn\'t heard already from you? Have you formulated any new arguments? Have you thought up of any new suggestions? Or will we have, as I originally posted here, the same people arguing the same things they have carried on through several threads to no conclusion? The devs know how you and others feel - but it is still up to them.

[zanzibar]

Hey, all this being polite is hard business you know!  Add on to that the task of keeping everything you say original and inspiring, and barely anything would get said around here.

[DaveG]

Originally posted by zanzibar
That\'s funny, because I only remember there being only around half a dozen members who were very active, MAYBE a dozen if my memory is not serving me well, and of those even less were actually committed to the guild.  It was pretty much just you, Karsier, and Xylaez; far beneath the required minimum.

I find this thread funny now, because for those who didn\'t know, I was Xylaez.    I even recruited Verrliit into the guild in the first place...

I believe at that point we had about a dozen that were mildly active, and there were a few others that were on frequently, but yes, we were not a large guild.  After the wipe, I reformed the guild, but many people were mac users, and the mac version was delayed for a long while.  I played for a bit post-wipe, but I found it far more fun to go bughunting, and eventually bugfixing.  (I cannot fathom how some of you rack up over a thousand hours...)  So, eventually the guild just dissolved.  Verrliit remained, and somehow has amassed 1262.24 total gameplay hours since then.



Let me put one of the wipe arguments this way:  Laanx is a test server.  It\'s there for people to test this thing.  If we have a large number of people sitting at the top, not advancing (and don\'t kid yourself, we do) they\'re not testing much.  Everyone is getting entirely too attached to their characters, on a server that they knew full well is for testing.  If you want to have fun while you\'re doing it, by all means, be my guest.  But, always keep in mind that you\'re playing a prototype, that will be reworked, and will be wiped to do so.  (You character will only die if your stats and crap fully define your character.)  If the thought of actually playing the game again because the world gets wiped annoys you, then maybe you didn\'t really want to play the game in the first place.  Besides, as was shown before, those who had high stats before the wipe were the fastest to regain them, because they already knew how, and it wasn\'t that hard.  (the scales were changed, but the strong were still the strong)  All in all, this argument is meaningless.  With all the whining over wipes, it really doesn\'t affect as much as is assumed.  Just deal with it and move on.

[zanzibar]

It\'s been a while, but I played with Verrliit when she was new (and less bitter) before she joined.  Maybe you were the one that sent the actual invite.  It doesn\'t matter.


And I agree, Your Character =/= Your Stats.

[DaveG]

Yeah, I know.  (Actually, in a weird twist of irony, I remember having to wait 5 min to invite because of a group invite just before.)  It doesn\'t matter.

[r.guppy]

By DaveG
but many people were mac users, and the mac version was delayed for a long while. (I cannot fathom how some of you rack up over a thousand hours...) So, eventually the guild just dissolved. Verrliit remained, and somehow has amassed 1262.24 total gameplay hours since then.

 I play Mac, look at my stats: it called dedication to something one enjoys doing.
 Most active player. 1620.70
 Best Advisor.          1698
 And just for good messier all stats except axe maxed.      )



 Forgot to say my guild was wiped but reformed and has grown to 27.

[Verrliit]

Are my numbers off?

Sorry.  

But that does not make my point less valid.  Anything that causes even a single player to leave, is a bad thing, to be avoided.


Am I bitter?

No.  

But I deeply mourn the loss of all who are gone, and what might have been, but for the wipe.


Was I recruited into my guild by Zanzibar and DaveG?

Yes.

I was intrigued by Zanzibar/Shalmaneser, having loved the book, \"Stand on Zanzibar\" by John Brunner, from which he took his names.

But Zanzibar was kicked out of the guild very shortly thereafter, for the same sort of behavior that later got him banned.

And when DaveG joined the Dev team, he also abandoned the guild.


It\'s true, that I once followed their lead.

I will not make that mistake again.


And no, we are not enemies.

Though they may be opponents, no one who loves PS is my enemy.

[zanzibar]

Originally posted by Verrliit Anything that causes even a single player to leave, is a bad thing, to be avoided.

No.  Planeshift isn\'t for everybody.

Originally posted by Verrliit
But I deeply mourn the loss of all who are gone, and what might have been, but for the wipe.

Most of the old TBoA members are still around, but in different guilds.

Originally posted by Verrliit
Zanzibar was kicked out of the guild very shortly thereafter, for the same sort of behavior that later got him banned.

No.  I was never kicked out.  I left.  And it wasn\'t \"shortly thereafter\", it was several months later.  And I was banned for completely unrelated reasons.

[Karyuu]

Originally posted by Verrliit
And when DaveG joined the Dev team, he also abandoned the guild.


It\'s true, that I once followed their lead.

I will not make that mistake again.


And no, we are not enemies.

Though they may be opponents, no one who loves PS is my enemy.

You will no longer follow DaveG because he quit a guild to help with the actual game? And he is your opponent? Taking this a little too seriously, perhaps :)

[DaveG]

Originally posted by Karyuu
Taking this a little too seriously, perhaps

I think that\'s the general theme here.

[Zan]

Originally posted by Verrliit
 Anything that causes even a single player to leave, is a bad thing, to be avoided.

That is a rather narrowminded view on things, to me something that could even cause a hundred players to leave PS now but eventually will aid in the production of a better final game is far from bad. A game which will entertain hundreds upon hundreds of players in the future. That is what I think of this and every future wipe.

We players have a job to do here, our job is to make this tech demo grow into a unique and fun game. We assist the devs by finding where they slipped up and by suggesting what could be done differently and why, if asked. There is an entire wishlist section here to suggest things and discussion of most subjects is definitely encouraged on these forums. However it is not in our job to argue with every decision the Devs take. Definitely not argue until we either win or manage to turn everything into one big drama. We are free to state our opinions and often even encouraged but we need to learn to let go then.

Every time I see people who dislike the Devs and GM team playing this game and try to argue every decision they make, I wonder .. why on earth are they playing with them then?
The only reason I can think of is that they are people who need enemies to define themselves and give their own presence meaning. Please think about that before you argue with someone, are you really trying to help the project or are you just doing it to be rebellious? The latter is probably best kept in-game as roleplay.

P.S.: most of this post isn\'t addressed to anyone specific, just some sort of mini-rant I guess.

[Xordan]

Originally posted by Verrliit
The Devs have invited us to play in their sandbox. The GMs keep us from spoiling each other\'s fun. Be respectful, and thank them often.

That\'s the point. It\'s our sandbox, which we\'re trying to improve. I\'d much rather half the people testing it leave than the sandbox to stop improving.

Originally posted by Verrliit
Anything that causes even a single player to leave, is a bad thing, to be avoided.

No, because players are here to test our work. If a player leaves, oh well, we carry on working. It makes little difference to us. In a few years when we hit say version 0.6 or higher, it\'s important if a player leaves because of the game, because we\'re doing something wrong. At the moment, we\'re still working on making the \'sandbox\' a game, so we\'re doing nothing wrong. If someone leaves because they get too attached to the stats of his/her character which they know will get wiped sometime because this is a tech demo and not a full game, then imo they need to get a life.

[Watcher]

But that does not make my point less valid. Anything that causes even a single player to leave, is a bad thing, to be avoided.

Wrong... wrong... wrong...



Are you saying that if power levellers leave its bad? Hell no its great when they leave. Are you saying its terrible when people who don\'t role-play leave? Again no, these are the people who shouldn\'t be in this game and might like to play Spoonscape.

But I deeply mourn the loss of all who are gone, and what might have been, but for the wipe.

I hate to say it but have you considered those people who leave because their stats got wiped are more concerned about their stats then there Rp history. I wont say everyone that has left doesn?t role-play but those who quit just because of the wipe obviously aren?t that dedicated or are way to materialistic.


Just a point Verrliit but can you name ten pepole who agree with you about the wipe?

[Verrliit]

Originally posted by Xordan
It\'s our sandbox, which we\'re trying to improve. I\'d much rather half the people testing it leave than the sandbox to stop improving.

Originally posted by Verrliit
Anything that causes even a single player to leave, is a bad thing, to be avoided.

No, because players are here to test our work. If a player leaves, oh well, we carry on working. It makes little difference to us. In a few years when we hit say version 0.6 or higher, it\'s important if a player leaves because of the game, because we\'re doing something wrong. At the moment, we\'re still working on making the \'sandbox\' a game, so we\'re doing nothing wrong. If someone leaves because they get too attached to the stats of his/her character which they know will get wiped sometime because this is a tech demo and not a full game, then imo they need to get a life.

My word.

You are developing a game, but do not value keeping as many players wanting to play the game as possible.

It is supposedly a place to do RP, but you don\'t care if the best and brightest performers leave.

Originally posted by Watcher
Just a point Verrliit but can you name ten pepole who agree with you about the wipe?

If you can stomach the task, you can do that yourself.

Parse your log files for a list of names before the wipe, and then compare that list to who is on today, if you want to create an obituary.

Most of the ones who agree with me, have heard things like Xordan says, have seen they are not valued, and losing hope, no longer play here.

So, why am I still here?

I love many who play within the game, and do not discard people so easily as Xordan.

And perhaps I am foolish, but I still have hope that I may yet be a force for change.


Verrliit

[Draklar]

Originally posted by Verrliit
Parse your log files for a list of names before the wipe, and then compare that list to who is on today, if you want to create an obituary.

People were leaving during MB as well, even though there was no wipes.
Invalid argument.