Author Topic: proglin's entertaiment presents...  (Read 9996 times)

Parallo

  • Forum Addict
  • *
  • Posts: 2035
  • Ꞇíꞃ Luıᵹ̇ꝺeaċ
    • View Profile
Re: proglin's entertaiment presents...
« Reply #45 on: November 28, 2006, 11:57:01 am »
Horray! I remember with one of my first characters I donated all my savings to the tournament and then I didn't get to attend. Maybe I'll get to now!
I suggest the statue of Laanx gets turned into a statue of Parallo <3. An NPC could never replace the huge hole he left in my heart when he died  :'(

Peacer

  • Veteran
  • *
  • Posts: 1079
  • I've got balls of steel
    • View Profile
Re: proglin's entertaiment presents...
« Reply #46 on: November 28, 2006, 01:18:40 pm »
...that website was recently updated to include future events - I somehow think that Yliakum has not seen the last of Proglin The Entertainer !

Uh-ow... they're on to me!

You are right :) After stopping the tournaments and concentrating mainly on other things, the fun actually decreased instead of increase, which kinda was what I had expected.  So no reason to go about and quit the business right? There will be some slight adjustments in the tournaments as well as the tournament crew...but we're going to have loads of fun once more. Just give me a couple of weeks to get RL a tad less busy so I can work me butt of again to entertain all of you fiiiiine people.

 :flowers:  \\o//

I would offer my help if I had three hands
The Guardians of Power

left the game, looking in now and then to check progress, if you want to contact me use the email attached to the msn contact on this forum account

Mordaan

  • Developers
  • Hydlaa Notable
  • *
  • Posts: 839
    • View Profile
Re: proglin's entertaiment presents...
« Reply #47 on: November 28, 2006, 05:41:22 pm »
What would be of great help is a gm present to transport defeated players back to the arena.  Especially poor enkis.
--Overseer, Explorers Guild.

Proglin

  • Hydlaa Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 460
    • View Profile
Re: proglin's entertaiment presents...
« Reply #48 on: November 28, 2006, 06:21:25 pm »
I cath your drift, But the thing is that GM's aren't allowed to hepl out in player run events, or more nicely said; "Interfere with players Role-play" Now I know this is kinda double, me being both a player and a GM. But the team of Proglin's Entertainment and myself have done the last couple of tournaments without help from GM's. The arena will most likely be close to undoable if Enkidukai folks join in, the 20 minutes it'll take to walk back from Oja to the arena would most likely kill the atmosphere so I fully agree, it would be nice.

In other words, I would like to uphold the tradition of creating this tournament with players only, maybe one day I can turn the tournaments into GM-events. Till then I'll have to think of a way to have a tournament, and maintaining the fun. Meaning, either another location, or find ways to maintain the atmosphere. Well.... I had plenty of time to think about it while writing this sentace. I think I'll do both.
yours, the entertainer

Unar Cho-Sen

  • Traveller
  • *
  • Posts: 19
    • View Profile
Re: proglin's entertaiment presents...
« Reply #49 on: November 29, 2006, 12:15:26 am »
Are you entering the tourney Unar, Here was me thinking i had a chance  ;D
No, but I will be watching..

..and perhaps I will once again seek out the victors.
-
"I am not afraid."



contact: Assassin@kittymail.com

neko kyouran

  • Guest
Re: proglin's entertaiment presents...
« Reply #50 on: November 29, 2006, 05:42:42 am »
I don't want to bring up something already talked about, but since it was mentioned, I'd like to make a point.  Maybe those with the abiity to do so, will pass it along to the person that has the power.

The subject of player run events getting GM involvement.:

A fighting tournament.  All a gm would be needed for is to transport the loser out of the DR back to the area of the event.  This wouldn't even be a problem, if the game mechanics of dueling were set up more so that a loss in a duel, when specified as such, won't kill the character when they get to 0.  Yes, there is the yield command I know.  But it isn't a practical solution.  Take a normal weapon smithed by someone, you can get a fully maxed character down to 0 in a few hits.  Factor in lag and other problems, and I can see many times where having to manually enter in the yeild command is a viable option.  Why not expand the dueling system then, to give the players the chioce of exactly how they would wnat thier duel to be.  Give them the abiity to say auto yield, or upon reaching 0 they simply yield and have to rest while they regain health. And in the meantime, allow the GM team to simply move the character until the dueling system is expanded.

I'm not that familiar with medieval tournaments, but from what I understand, it was quite a bad thing to kill your opponent in battle.  Resulting in you being automaticaly disqualified from the tournament and probably killed yoursself.

Why can't you have each player then use the yeild command after they get below a certain amount of health?  Simple.  It's not practical.  First, if I were in a duel I wouldn't be focusing on my health bar, rather than more so focused on what my oponent was doing.  Second, its too subjective, and not objective.  With lag and other factors, both players could drop below the specified yeild point and then there is the problem of trying to figure out who was actually the winner and such.  Makes it much simplier and easy on the judges if that was system automated.

The arena was designed to be used as a place to hold tournaments.  It's more OOC to hold it anywhere else.  The only problem is that a loss in a duel, unless the player sends the yield command, results in death.  That's fine when you want to RP a murder and whatnot, but not for your tournament style duel.  Thus is why more options to the player about how and what type of duel it is to be.  It can't be abused as both parties have to agree on the terms.  If you agree to something you don't like, well, as DaveG said, "don't blame the system, when you make stupid actions."

I do see the problem with GMs helping player events.  GMs exist outside the World.  To the character, they don't exist.  The GM powers/abilities shouldn't be used to help characters as those powers don't actually exist to the character in their world.

But in some instances, there should be exceptions.  The example I listed above as one.  It's ooc to have a tournament where the loser dies.  As such, the character shouldn't ever go to the DR.  So if the character is already ooc becuase of going to the DR, then why is it any worse for a GM to teleport them back to the tournament, since the character is already ooc to begin with.  So my point to all this is this:  Let Gms have the ability to help in ooc instances for now since the game mechanics aren't setup to support true tournaments yet.  And when the game does evolve, then there will not be any need for the GMs to have to step in.

In my mind it's worse to see a chain of enkis, or any race as a matter, having to run all the way back after a loss, all the while having to say to eveyone they come across, "you don't see me, i'm currently at the tournament, but I lost my match, so i'm ooc right now while I run back".  A simple move from a GM would prevent all that and reduce ooc type situations, which is what I thought they were there for afterall.

Sorry if that post is messy. I'm at work and wrote it on the fly.  Sorry if it seems a bit jumbled up.

Proglin

  • Hydlaa Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 460
    • View Profile
Re: proglin's entertaiment presents...
« Reply #51 on: November 29, 2006, 11:06:59 am »
Write a bit more when you are at work ;) Nice and constructive post I'd say. There are some things I agree on and some parts Idisagree on mate. The arena being the one place to have tournaments for instance... It's a good place to hold a tournament, but doing one elsewhere isn't OOC at all, it's just outside of the arena. There are some places that suit themselves perfectely for such an ocasion. consumer gorge for example. Nice steep slopes, good places for the crowds, plenty of space, and somewhat in between the Hydlaa and Ojaveda. The difference between Dying and yielding is quite a big one I agree, and yeilding should be made easier. And not dying at the end of it should be an option, challenge one to a duel, and challenge one to death.

Then one comon misundersanding is that tournaments are won by the ones with less lag and better connections, this is not true, the one with higher stats doesn't even necesarilly win. In a running tournament.. aye, it is. My goal is to eliminate as many of those features as possible, by implementing a class system, seeding people, handing out weapons myself, setting some additional rules at every tournament. As for the running tournament, skill is implemented using a relay race instead of just running, the race, as in real life, is won or lost at the changing hands of the stick.

The las thing is that I'm trying really hard to keep everyone statisfied, one of the goals i to get your avarage standard PL-er to Role-play, and to show hardcore RPers that fighting and leveling can lead to Role-play.It's hard to please eveeryone, thus I fail at that attempt almost every time and day ;) For now... IC is maintained, although I admit... it's a close call.

Thanks for sharing your oppinion, I hope to have given a statisfying reply.
yours, the entertainer

neko kyouran

  • Guest
Re: proglin's entertaiment presents...
« Reply #52 on: November 29, 2006, 11:51:31 am »
Write a bit more you say? can do!  :)

My thinking behind the "anywhere but the arena is occ" comment was thus:  Say you hold it out in the middle of that field.  Going off of what a medival tourny was (and tournies today as well), there would be tents, grand stands, etc setup for the event.  Just going out to the middle of nowhere, well, to me at least makes as much sense as RPing a murder in front of Harnquist's shop while there are people running all about, and then trying to say you're character did that without being unoticed, or saying you are being held captive by thugs in the middle of the Laanx temple.

I'm not saying that in the future, when the game and the land maps are further expanded upon that having tournies in places other than the arena wouldn't be fine. I was just saying, as things are now, the only real IC place to hold a tourney, would be the arena, since that is the only area set up to facilitate proper dueling tournies ATM. Race events, are a different story though, the bigger the field the better.  :)  Just my opinion at least.

Hmm, what else. Ah yes, about the lag.  I've attended a few of your past tournies.   From what I have witnessed, you've done a DR of a job at making them fair and just.

My point about the lag was simply to say that if we tried to have it so that it was up to the players to monitor their health bar and then yield after it dropped past a certain point, well, it would be too subjective in determining a winner.  Lag would be a major factor.  We all know that the stats don't update in any real time fashion, simply due to where the server sits.  Can't be helped.  The other example I gave was that say both players hit each other and fall below the certain yield point.  Determining a winner in that situation would be more difficult than it needs to be if the dueling system was simply expanded upon.  It probably will though, just everything takes time is all.

I saw your race you recently put on as well.  Not first hand though, but I did hear about it.  I thought it was well planned out, and the "batton" thing was a key point.  Equaled the playing field between the slower computers and the faster computers well.  Over all, I think you and your team have done one DR of a job putting together these tournies.

I guess I forgot to mention that in my first post since I was concentrating on the "why, in certain situations, GM involvement should be allowed in tournies, such as a dueling tourny" point I was making.  Hope this clears up some things.  :) 

From my view point, GMs should be allowed to use thier powers in certain instances until the game mechanics themselves are developed to a point where GMs don't need to be involved.  I'd like to believe many GMs and players agree with this, and would hope that someone with the ability to do so will take this issue up with the people the have the power to say yes/no to this idea again. 

I believe Talad wants a game where eveyone is in character as much as possible.  Liminating the long OOC run back to the tourny after a loss in one of the rounds by allowing GMs to use thier ability to teleport players directly back to the side lines would help reduce OOC situations.  Then, when the duel abilities are further developed, GMs using thier special abilities won't be needed anymore. 

All I'm trying to say is that GMs should be able to use thier powers to help the RP of the game in areas where the current game mechanics lack until the time when the game mechanics can support such RP themselces. I thought the whole idea of the GM team was to help nurish the RP and reduce the OOC in the world.  Using the teleport command on the losers of tourny matches would do just that.

Just another few hours and I'll be off of work for 2 days. \m/

Proglin

  • Hydlaa Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 460
    • View Profile
Re: proglin's entertaiment presents...
« Reply #53 on: November 29, 2006, 03:41:42 pm »
Well you got me mate :D

I never participated in a tournamnet, come to think of it...

hey...

* Proglin cries.
yours, the entertainer

Mordaan

  • Developers
  • Hydlaa Notable
  • *
  • Posts: 839
    • View Profile
Re: proglin's entertaiment presents...
« Reply #54 on: November 29, 2006, 04:32:19 pm »
Just because a gm is present, doesn't mean it has to be a gm run event.  Geez, the egos on those gms.   :P ;D

Seriously, that is the only purpose I see for a gm in this case, transporting players to avoid that interruption in the flow of the event.  A gm would be there to assist only, not to control the event, kind of like the healers getting the winners ready for the next battle.  I don't think its OOC at all.  Yes, it would be nice if there were more options to the duelling system other than death and a trip to the DR for the loser.  But until that happens, this is the most logical solution.  I am all for keeping things in IC but there has to be a balance with that and keeping good flow of an event.
--Overseer, Explorers Guild.

Akaye

  • Hydlaa Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 270
  • Thread head that loves Strawberries <3
    • View Profile
Re: proglin's entertaiment presents...
« Reply #55 on: November 29, 2006, 06:01:44 pm »
Quote from: Mordaan
Seriously, that is the only purpose I see for a gm in this case, transporting players to avoid that interruption in the flow of the event. 

* Akaye throws pillows at Mordaan

Unfortantly we are not allowed to become involved unless we clear it with Talad. I do believe at Proglins last tournament the answer was no to GM involvement.

Personally I don't see why the tournament can't be held just a little closer to ojaveda in the fields. Basically in between Ojaveda and Hydlaa. Then everyone would have some walking time and it would be a little fairer. Heck holding it in ojaveda would be even fair as all other tournaments have been held at the arena in the past.
Zorbels: PS character
Links for Newbies:
Players Guide RP Guide PS Settings

Gharan

  • Hydlaa Notable
  • *
  • Posts: 553
    • View Profile
Re: proglin's entertaiment presents...
« Reply #56 on: November 29, 2006, 06:15:12 pm »
Quote
Heck holding it in ojaveda would be even fair as all other tournaments have been held at the arena in the past.

I agre, but the lag generated from dueling in Oja is horrendous.

bilbous

  • Guest
Re: proglin's entertaiment presents...
« Reply #57 on: November 29, 2006, 06:16:08 pm »
Sounds to mde the only place to have a fighting tournament is in the library in the DR, spectators can line the catwalk and losers won't have far to go.

Parallo

  • Forum Addict
  • *
  • Posts: 2035
  • Ꞇíꞃ Luıᵹ̇ꝺeaċ
    • View Profile
Re: proglin's entertaiment presents...
« Reply #58 on: November 29, 2006, 06:19:26 pm »
That would make it way, way too OOC for my liking.
I suggest the statue of Laanx gets turned into a statue of Parallo <3. An NPC could never replace the huge hole he left in my heart when he died  :'(

Mordaan

  • Developers
  • Hydlaa Notable
  • *
  • Posts: 839
    • View Profile
Re: proglin's entertaiment presents...
« Reply #59 on: November 29, 2006, 07:11:45 pm »
Perhaps that can be a point for upcoming development...a DR arena.   :D
Mordaan looks around
--Overseer, Explorers Guild.