Author Topic: Aging  (Read 12535 times)

Kerol

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Re: Aging
« Reply #120 on: July 04, 2006, 09:28:31 pm »
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The problem with that though would be that some people might not want to lose all their stuff after a certain point.
They will just transfer their stuff to another char.
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If you think people get mad after wipes now, imagine how they'll feel when wipes become an automatic game mechanic?
People get mad because they are accostumed to the way it is and don't expect a wipe to happen and because they can't take that into consideration while they are playing.
If people can count on their character to die (their skills mainly becoming useless in the WotL, doesn't mean that they are useless in the DR), they will plan more carefully how much time they put into training and PLing. I expect a higher tendency to RP this way.

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Most people would just make new characters to be "fully functional" again, which would defeat the purpose of keeping the characters around in the first place!
Not at all. It is only a matter of advantage and disadvantage of the ghost form how people will decide. If the ghost form is appealing enough and regularly available only for those exceptions (people who lost their body or died of age) it can also be seen as special reward and people will try to achieve it.
Whether you create a new, "fully functional" char it's your choice, but that doesn't defeat the other purpose of aging which is reducing the number of maxed out people.


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Ambiguous-Existence

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Re: Aging
« Reply #121 on: July 05, 2006, 02:21:16 pm »
i think aging is a bad idea and their are many other ways to make roleplaying meaninful eg. guilds that are created have to choose their purpose (military, local enforcment, thiefs, mercenary, body gaurds or protection) thier are many other ways you can make role playing more meaninful simply by giving things purpose eg. guilds, trade, towns evolution yada yada. you just have to make the game function as the world has functioned for many years which is revolving around money, conquering, marketing, diplomacy with different regions controlled by rulers and evolution and growth of towns to cities

Siteri Kidachi

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Re: Aging
« Reply #122 on: July 05, 2006, 07:22:00 pm »
I agree that we should encourage people to do things other than training, but making all the training useless after a certain point isn't the way to do it. If that's the way we wanted it we should just get rid of training/levels entirely and just make PS a chat/RP program... then people could just think of their own ways to simulate fighting. We shouldn't discourage leveling itself, just PLing, which isn't the same thing. In fact, because this is a program we're supposed to be testing, we should be encouraging people to level up occasionally so they can use the different abilities and determine if they are working right! People should be able to get around to using all the abilities that are in the game.

Kerol

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Re: Aging
« Reply #123 on: July 05, 2006, 08:16:40 pm »
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i think aging is a bad idea
Why?

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In fact, because this is a program we're supposed to be testing, we should be encouraging people to level up occasionally so they can use the different abilities and determine if they are working right!
I believe you got something wrong. This is the wishlist, the threads here are not about the NOW but about the FUTURE. And in future you won't primarily be testing things anymore. In future one can also assume that things actually are nearly bug-free and working. The biggest problem then is how to balance everything.
And I foresee that (like in every other MMORPG so far) there will be a strong tendency to non-RP caused by a lot of people who don't know anything else than treadmilling and never heard about actual RP before. If this is not a problem at this moment (although many people think it is), it will be in the future.
Thus we have to have concepts to conter that development before it is self-promoting.

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I agree that we should encourage people to do things other than training, but making all the training useless after a certain point isn't the way to do it.
As I said, the stats and skills could still have effects as ghost.

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If that's the way we wanted it we should just get rid of training/levels entirely and just make PS a chat/RP program
Sorry for the stupid reply, but: Have you ever played The Sims? Had it any negative effect on the popularity of the game that your chars are supposed to die there?

And people, we are not talking about deleting the chars. Please take into consideration that the DR will be a lot bigger than now, that it could be a whole own world there and take into consideration that there could be a lot of interesting effects related to the ghost-being; plus that it won't be impossible to get back into the world, you were used to.. Being dead practically is a whole different situation that could not only add a lot of interesting aspects (have you ever been dead?) but also balance the gameplay more to RP, not treadmilling.


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Siteri Kidachi

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Re: Aging
« Reply #124 on: July 05, 2006, 09:00:12 pm »
No, I haven't played The Sims actually.

Really, the part I'm most opposed to of this idea is the idea that after being resurrected you'll just die again a short time later because you'll still be old. If I don't want to be a ghost, I don't want to have to have someone resurrect me every day. Resurrection should be literally an extra life, which lasts just as long as if you had just created your character.

Karyuu

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Re: Aging
« Reply #125 on: July 05, 2006, 10:13:51 pm »
I disable aging in The Sims every now and then :) Lets me play at my own pace.
Judge: Are you trying to show contempt for this court, Mr Smith?
Smith: No, My Lord. I am attempting to conceal it.

Kerol

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Re: Aging
« Reply #126 on: July 06, 2006, 12:44:04 am »
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Resurrection should be literally an extra life, which lasts just as long as if you had just created your character.
That actually could be an idea. One could have a spell of youth which could be used after the ressurrection; or a combined spell "complete restore" for healing, reducing age and ressurrecting at once.. its even imaginable to have an amulet of "eternal life" and stuff like that.. there are a lot of options and possibiilties connected to age and death.

Addition:
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I disable aging in The Sims every now and then Smiley Lets me play at my own pace.

 :woot: CHEATER!  :P
« Last Edit: July 06, 2006, 12:47:06 am by Kerol »


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Seytra

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Re: Aging
« Reply #127 on: July 06, 2006, 08:03:50 pm »
Sorry for the stupid reply, but: Have you ever played The Sims? Had it any negative effect on the popularity of the game that your chars are supposed to die there?
This may be just as stupid a reply, but are we playing PS or The Sims?
The Sims has quite a different purpose. In The Sims, you basically have an RL simulator, whereas in PS, you have basically an adventure game.
The two may share some aspects, but they're still very different concepts. While in The Sims your objective is to lead a life, in PS it is to experience adventures of whatever sort, not just staying alive.
There are reasons why I (and possibly others, too) play PS but not The Sims.
If aging is player-selectable, then fine. If it isn't, then not fine at all. If ghostness appeals to a player, then that player should be able to attain that without having to go through too much assle. Likewise, if it does not appeal to a player, it shouldn't be forced upon them regardless.
There are reasons why some things, despite being realistic, aren't generally put into games. Additionally, all the talk about age making one wiser really is just soothing mumbo-jumbo. Fact is that age also affects the brain and thusly all your stats degrade as you basically rot away.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2006, 08:13:59 pm by Seytra »

Ambiguous-Existence

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Re: Aging
« Reply #128 on: July 07, 2006, 12:00:20 pm »
The Sims aging system sucked i always turned it off because you got old to quickly

Kerol

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Re: Aging
« Reply #129 on: July 08, 2006, 03:43:47 pm »
The aging we were talking about has two big problems (not taking into account bad feelings about being forced to play in a certain way or ideological disagreement because freeform RP would be reduced, "less freedom for players" etc.):
1. How to determin the time a char gets older?
2. What about race-specific lifespans?

The first problem can be reduced to the question whether online time or RL time should determin the velocity a char ages.
Only online time: if one doesn't play a char for a year, another char which is being played for this time would be a lot older in the end -> not acceptable
Only RL time: If one decides to not play a char for a year, the char might be dead after that, although one haven't played with it -> not acceptable

It is possible to reduce that problem to a decent amount by following case destinction:
case 1: onlinetime < 100h / month => char gets older for 100 (units aren't important here)
case 2: 100h / month < onlinetime < 1000h / month => char gets older for onlinetime
case 3: onlinetime > 1000h / month => char gets older for 1000

With that only a factor of 10 is possible as maximum difference, but still the problem isn't really solved, only reduced.

The second problem is not solvable within this system.
More in detail:
In The Sims, you play a character for a defined lifetime. That means you have a maximum time in RL to play through childhood, adulthood and so on.
If one tries to set maximum lifetimes for races equally, one would have to reduce the lifetime of some races (enkidukai, for example) to a non-acceptable limit in relation to other races.
It is not desirable to take the maximum lifespan as a reason to prefer one race over the other.

On the other side, a player only can play a little window in the chars life per default (who can sit there day and night and play the char from birth to death?).
With continous aging this window is not only too restricting in regards of the game experience (online/RL time may vary too much from IC time) but also  leaves too little space for people who want to develop their chars over a long time.

One could also think that aging itself has the other problem that it is not balancable. Taking the CC into consideration, it would be a very big problem to give players the choice with which age to start. Right now one can override those game mechanics. If age actually has a big impact, one couldn't anymore.
However, I said "could think", as I doubt that it is intented to be that easy to override the CC as it is an integral element of the game mechanics.
All chars start per default (now) in early adulthood and that should not be changed as it would create big troubles in balancing (what stats should be reduced/raised for older chars? how many creationpoints additional? what additional events? etc. etc.).

After considering all variables I could think of, I come to the conclusion that continous aging with death in the end is not realisable in an acceptable way.

Instead I propose a different approach, trying to circumvent the problems of continous aging but having the advantages (because of the lot of possibilities) of age itself.
Three stages - child, adult, aged.
All chars start off as adult (like it should be now without circumventing the CC).
It is possible with potions, spells, quests etc. to change the physiological age/appearance, but leaving out the continous aging dependant on online/RL time.
It's possible to have age-specific items/skills/quests with that, without being forced as player to do those quests in a certain time.
One wouldn't die of age anymore, but being ghost could still be an option, for instance if you lost your body in any way or decided to be a ghost, or as quest or even as dream (wasn't there a thread about sleeping and dreaming? *scratches his head*).


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