Senses

[Waylander]

I think you should be able to level up senses...

I mean imagine having amazing hearing (/say hear cylinder expands)

Yeah, I\'m only really posting this because I could really use it at the moment, but still would be useful no?

More health from foods depending on your taste

[Karyuu]

Then you have to write an in-depth explanation of how those senses would work :P I know that an Enkidukai tracking ability has been proposed/discussed before.

The more you could write in your beginning post, the better everyone else will feel.

[Waylander]

Heh, I writ it in frustration.  Hence the lack of a fully developped idea.


I shall finish it up later.

[Shadowcast]

I dont see how it could be useful. If I remember correctly the five senses are touch, hearing, sight, speach, and smell. The only senses that would/could have any impact on something are hearing (depending on how you could use it in game), sight, and smell (also depending on how you could use it). So basically the only SURE thing it can be used to raise is sight. And the problem with that is that those with slower comps would need to have shorter vision. Now you could use it to pick out hard to see things near you, like someone hiding in the shadows. So unless you can come up with some good ideas then I dont see a reason to implement it.

[Karyuu]

And how do you train in sight, anyway? You can train yourself in pattern-seeking, tracking, etc., but sight itself? Same with hearing - and most of these, if ever \"trained\" in real life, are trained from a very early age as far as I know.

[Waylander]

Hearing can be trained actualy...interesting stuff

Either way, it would be the same as training endurance and such...you can\'t really train intelligence in real life either...knowledge? yes intelligence not unless you are below...15 I think it is

Again, this was writ in frustration, feel free to make a discussion about it though

[Shadowcast]

Originally posted by Karyuu
And how do you train in sight, anyway? You can train yourself in pattern-seeking, tracking, etc., but sight itself? Same with hearing - and most of these, if ever \"trained\" in real life, are trained from a very early age as far as I know.

Thats true. Even though some prograims claim they can help you raise those senses (you know the ones that cost a lot of money and look EXTREMELY bogus) I know that they dont work, you know that they dont work, most people know that they dont work.

You better have a really good idea to change our minds.

[Waylander]

I will probably not post in this thread again...but all the same,

Hearing can be trained in a sense, you can learn to block out sounds a concentrate on one or two.

Sight can not be trained, it relies on the actual construction of your eyeballs

Smell, I highly doubt this can be training, but I am not sure

Touch, depends on the amount of nerve endings and so can not be trained (Atleast to my knowledge)

Taste, I have no idea, though I doubt it

...

But, all the same..

Intelligence: can not be trained

Will: Can not be trained

Charisma: Can not be trained much; it depends a lot on your looks and you can\'t learn to be as good looking as Jessica Alba now can you?

Strength: Can be trained, but not through knowledge, it should take practice

Endurance: Same as strength

Agility: Just try training this, it is very hard especialy after the age of 15.

And so; it seems a lot of the training available isn\'t quite sensible either

[Karyuu]

Originally posted by Waylander
Intelligence: can not be trained

Can too :> If you think of intelligence as \"the capacity to acquire and apply knowledge.\"

Will: Can not be trained

Definitely can, speaking from personal experience :P

Charisma: Can not be trained much; it depends a lot on your looks and you can\'t learn to be as good looking as Jessica Alba now can you?

You can be taught to be magnetic and charming - it concentrates on a deep understanding of behavior and its manipulation.

[Waylander]

Originally posted by Karyuu

Originally posted by Waylander
Intelligence: can not be trained

Can too :> If you think of intelligence as \"the capacity to acquire and apply knowledge.\"

Intelligence, along with anything in the mind, can not be trained in any successful way once the person hits the age of 15...only change is how you use it (i.e.: organization, specialization)

Will: Can not be trained

Definitely can, speaking from personal experience

I disagree, it can be gained, but not trained, you can not be taught to be more willful, you must change it yourself.

Charisma: Can not be trained much; it depends a lot on your looks and you can\'t learn to be as good looking as Jessica Alba now can you?

You can be taught to be magnetic and charming - it concentrates on a deep understanding of behavior and its manipulation.

Aye, but it is also very dependent on looks, it can be trained to a certain degree but, past that, looks are your only chance and those can\'t be imporved overly

[zanzibar]

I don\'t think Charisma should even be in the game.  I think that a naturalistic approach should be taken to it; If the player is charismatic and a good leader, then the character will be charismatic and a good leader.


Anyway, in Daggerfall, a big part of the game is hearing.  Hearing if you\'re being followed, hearing what exactly is following you -- is it footsteps, the clashing of armour, the panting of a bear or were creature? -- and you could get a skill which increased the range and detail of the sound you heard.

This would be hard to do in planeshift, because the creatures are slow, it takes effort to make one chase you, and they always spawn in the same spot.

[derwoodly]

I have always thought of Charasima as a combination of looks and Charm.  

Anyways, My personal preference is to keep the five stats as they are.  Magic and spells can be used to increase sight, hearing, smell or what not.  

Training something like hearing is too general of an ability to just train.  You could train your ears for tone, or to recognise certain sounds, but just training them to work better does not sound \"realistic\". Of cource it is a game and you just do it because it is fun.

[Hellios]

in my opinion, 3 sences can be trained..they use a guess and check type training.

SMELL: smell can be trained by smelling a certain thing, and guessing what it is. You would eventually get better at telling what smell goes with what thing.

TASTE: taste can be trained by tasting something without knowing what it is,guess what it is, and eventually you will know the same taste all the time.

HEARING: listen to natural sounds and focus on the sound of nature not civilization. eventually your sences will be more aware and you will hear better.

these examples are in a simple form, there are probably alot more detailed versions to write these but im a bit tired and cant think much right now.

[Merak]

To summarize Waylander\'s post, he doubt a sense can be trained if it depends on actual construction of the organ.  So some senses can be trained and others not.  For attributes, intelligence and will cannot, but charisma and strength can, for example.
Karyuu is not agree for some things.  Hellios details how several senses can be trained.

In a nutshell (in real life), all senses depend on your body constitution, as if you have eyeballs to see, you have also ears to hear, etc.  You cannot raise your sense beyond what is allowed by your physical constitution: if you have destroyed a part of your ears hearing too loud music for example.  If you are myopic, you can gain at most about +0.5 dioptre by excercising your eyes, but that is all, either you are at -1 dioptre or -7 dioptre.

But, even if you cannot improve your senses, you can train them to be more accurate, to use them better.  The real truth about this is that an unused (or misused) sense becomes lazy.

So, you can train your hearing to recognize and isolate particular sounds (ex. a man who is an Oreille d\'Or in a submarine (sorry, I haven\'t found the english term)). At home, you can also do blind tests about smells and tastes (or sounds), with small pots containing spices, flowers, anything. Do it regularly with various scents and parfumes, and you will note that your smell has been trained.

For mental and physical attributes, it should be the same. After your body has finished to built itself (when you\'re about 15 years old perhaps), connexions in the brain, skeletton, etc. will not change. So you cannot improve them but you can trained them (body building, training to solve riddles and crosswords, learn to look nice and trustful, etc.)

Now, PS is an imaginary world, so limitations are the ones we (or more likely developpers) impose. If they want all senses to be trainable, they can implement it.

A realistic way to implement it (imho) would be to separate the attribute (your physical and mental constitutions, diminished by wounds and injuries) from the skills.
For example, an Oreille d\'Or has a quite good hearing, but has developped a lot \"recognize sea sounds\" and \"distinguish sounds\" skills.
Also, a swindler may have a quite good Charisma, but has a big score in \"smooth talk\" skill.
Then, the test would be done on (natural_talent + relevant_skill). Il would be much more subtle and full of nuances ...

[Father Sengus]

I don\'t know if I like the idea or not yet, but I can still join the discussion. Why do people insist on finding a good way to train them? Couldn\'t this be implemented as something you choose at character creation and then have to live with? In many other games, that\'s how it works with stats and that never seemed strange, did it?

As for how to use different sense. I know good smelling and tasting would both be a bonus for a cook.