Go To (You know where)

[Vjorin]

What the heck is it with people who play this game and don?t follow what an RPG is supposed to mean and is intended for?  There are a few select people [ names removed ] who just don?t get the concept of this game.  I mean, is it so much to ask to use the freekin? brackets, or parenthesis, or other means to designate between IC and OOC?  Is it so much to ask to not be such a dork, and not exist for the sole purpose of pissing people off?

I?m used to playing this MUD called Ascension ( ascension.mudworld.com 4000 ) if you?re into MUDs and want to check it out.  On this game, role playing is enforced.  What?s the difference between enforced and encouraged?  It obviously means that you MUST stay in character with the appropriate channels.  If you ?say? something or ?should? something, or even ?whisper? something, you are talking through the voice of your character.  If you talk over the ?gossip? channel for example, you are talking OOCly, or through the voice of the player.  These rules are clearly outline throughout the game.

I think part of the problem with PlaneShift, is that there needs to be a stronger statement to what the purpose of the game is.  People ask all the time: ?What is the goal of the game?? Goal?  There is not a goal.  You play for your character to exist.  You play to exist in an imaginative world, to play out a fantasy life.  You play to help write a story.  If you don?t like it, leave.

I saw one post where this rude, ignorant dude was commenting on the fact against the concept of this game.  He had the nerve to state against wanting to spend time on a game to play the role of a character, as a politician or blacksmith for example, when you could just do it in real life, when, in fact, all he did was hack and slash the entire time.  Why would you waste your time in a game for the simple reason of increasing some numbers on your character?  I mean, the last time I checked people?in real life you can?t lead a town made up of mythical, and sometimes rather sexy ( heh ) people into the beginnings of a lifelong war against horrid orcs and goblins and ogres of the far east for the bloody murders of your wife?s family.  You can not cry tears into a forever frozen fountain of youth.  You can not become a blacksmith, practicing your work of trade into a superior craftsman, working for the Kings and Lords of afar, selling not armor, but beautiful works of art. You can not assassinate the leader of an evil mages guild, stabbing him in the back and slitting his throat, and recovering a long lost artifact which could very well save the life of your people from the horrible disease that has spread throughout the world.

Of course, you can?t quite do this in PlaneShift?not yet, but you will.

I mean, have you ( said people ) ever read a fictional book, for Christ sakes?  You don?t read to increase numbers on a screen.  You read to experience a rich story, and usually, at least in some way, become a part of the characters in the story.

I?m not going to lie.  Killing stuff is fun.  Making your character stronger is also fun.  I mean, how are you supposed to be the leader of a warriors clan if you?re a wimp?

However, you can not make that the sole purpose of playing this game.  If you are, you?re wasting your time.

I look forward to the day when people break the rules of the game and get their ass banned for it.

I can?t remember where I read this, but it was a statement, of how PlaneShift is supposed to be experienced.  They mention the structure of the imaginative world and how it?s something you build and experience, and when someone breaks the structure of the imagination ( through not role playing, etc? ) it ruins the game for everyone else.

I realize PlaneShift is still early in development.  I believe the game will ALWAYS be in development?always adding content, which is a great thing.  New areas, new items, etc?

But even so, ignorant, unimaginative people piss me off.

Thank you.

[Kiern]

Vented enough?  I hope so.  Because that is all this thread is good for.

Who are you to tell someone what is fun or if they\'re wasting their time?  They are doing what they want to do and enjoying it.  Seems like a good way to spend my time to me, you know, having fun and all that stuff.  And because they enjoy this, you call them ignorant?

People are going to do what they want, whether you like it or not...you\'re either going to realize that or you\'re going to leave.  That\'s a fact.

[DaveG]

We\'ve been sort of debating how much to enforce staying IC, as of late.  The constant public nuciances need to be kicked and banned (if they continue after a warning), but it\'s not quite clear what needs to be done with those that play the game but don\'t remain IC all the time.  There are some that take it entirely too far, and others who don\'t take it seriously enough.  It would be excessive force to kick people who slip into OOC from time to time, but if everyone did it all the time, it\'d be a mess.  So you see, it\'s a fuzzy issue.

[Sirelee]

I am rather new to rp games and to ban someone for not talking ic may be harsh they may not even know how to RP. I admit its hard for me at times but i try hard. Because it can be rather fun.

[Gripen]

Did I mention that I\'m new to RP, and online games. Learning the controls & settings is difficult enough without having to cowtow to all the scenarios and customs of an online community.  However, as I discover the scenarios, I try to appease them--AND hopefully I\'ll find one interesting enough to pan it out.

Then there are so many bugs--sliding avatars, map glitches, lost new players (like myself), etc..  It becomes impossible to stay IC--I mean how do you tell someone you are wiggling back and forth to adjust your camera--how do you ask?

I passed a couple role-playing--my chat screen wasn\'t scrolling, they looked new, I asked to help.  When my screen popped to where it belongs, I realized my mistake.  Of course, an apology was in place. Perhaps the real problem is \"t\'tude tween t\'talents.\"

Overall, I have not encountered a great deal of true OOC, unless one wants to be Elizabethan.

Should we also do \"/advisor\" IC?  (real question)

[Karyuu]

Originally posted by Gripen
Should we also do \"/advisor\" IC?  (real question)

No, the Help channel is completely OOC :)

Banning or kicking someone for being OOC is a silly idea, really, unless it\'s clear that a person is doing it on purpose and just to be a nuisance when everyone else is in the middle of RP dialogue.

But the thing also is, PlaneShift is a roleplaying game - it\'s meant to be a world where you act in-character all the time, and new players coming in have to realize that this is something they\'re signing up for :) I agree, bugs and newbie help requests make this difficult right now, and it is one of the reason why there is no stricter RP enforcement.

However. Even if you don\'t roleplay, you should at least be considerate and designate OOC text with parentheses or brackets, a simple thing that I have seen many refuse to do.

[TheMinority]

Take deeeeeeep breaths. Push out the hate, bring in the love.

I agree with Karyuu that, even if someone doesn\'t RP, they should at least tell someone with a simple \"[Sorry, I\'m not into RPing]\" instead of just ignoring the person, getting upset, or confusing the ever-loving heck outta the RPer.

Though I don\'t think it\'s really necessary to get so upset because of a few bad apples. I mean, even though it\'s supposed to simulate \"real\" life (in a slightly fantasized, medieval, underground sort of way), it is still just a game. nothing to get so worked up about.

if you are, in fact, not participating in RP, or are new to it, and you are getting frustrated from having to tell so many people, set it to a shortcut. easy as 3.14!

[Vjorin]

I think people have missed the target of my red hot flaming post.  I\'m just erked about the few people who intentionally tick off the RPers of the game with things such as emoting \"So and so [bleeps] your mom.\" repeatidly.

I had that the other day, but alas, I didn\'t know about the /report command at the time, and by the time a GM came in ( thanks again by the way, appreciate the attention to the mater ) it was too late.

To put in my two coppers ( again ) I would say it would be nice to have some kind of info screen displayed to people who create new characters, explaining the general rules of the game.  Also, I thought it would be cool if, like the description button, there was a bio button, allowing you to set up your characters biography in a detailed, story like sense.  With people doing that, it would allow GMs to set up small story lines around your character, or to better involved your character into the main ones, since the GMs would have a better understanding of where your character is comming from. 

TheMinority: I agree, people should at least be polite and explain that they\'re not into RPing.  I know if I weren\'t into it, I would at least be gratious enough to just not use the say command, and use tells instead, or if I really had to use say for whatever reason, just use the good ole [].

Karyuu: Totally with you on that one.  I think I keyed in on some of those points at the begining of this reply.

Gripen: It\'s cool you\'re new, I am too.  Welcome to the game.  ( I realise that since I\'m a nagging nOOb, what I say has no weight, but I\'d still like to voice my opinion, BTW ) Please understand, my post wasn\'t targeted towards you.  It\'s more so to people who know the rules, have been playing for long enough to know them, and purposly break them just to tick people off.

Sirelee: Dito.  Welcome to the game.  I\'m not really flaming towards newer people, but to the experienced bitter ones who think playing PlaneShift is a right, not a privelidge.

DaveG: I think it\'s fair that people don\'t want to RP all the time but still play the game.  However, when they don\'t want to, I think it\'s also fair to ask them to use brackets.  Infact, I just had an idea.  What if there was a command in the game called OOC and a command called IC.  If people wish to play ICly, they would have IC activated.  If people wish to play OOCly, they activate the OOC.  What this could do is automatically put brackets around what they say, or some how otherwise designate to the other players that the character is OOC.  I think this would solve a great deal of problems, and allow the GMs to only have to deal with the players who insist on being IC but still abusing the system.

Kiern:  I was just explaining how people are hurting the experience of the game for other people who want the game for what it is intended for.  You are obviously one of the people I was talking about, otherwise you wouldn\'t have been so upset by my post.

Hopefully I responded to everyone\'s comments.  I encourage everyone to continue the debate.

Edited for language.

[DeathsAngel]

Originally posted by Gripen
It becomes impossible to stay IC--I mean how do you tell someone you are wiggling back and forth to adjust your camera--how do you ask?

A thing I do to explain sometimes spinning bug, or when people see me go away but in reality I stay at the same place is :  ?Bah, surly a stupid wizard learning time distortation or casting illusion on you.?

When you don\'t know how to explain but this on Talad/Laanx fault or of a crazy wizard

[BlackAcre]

A tab specifically designated \"OOC\" (RPers in the middle of something can then turn off) is really the best (maybe only) option.  Parentheses are too clumsy, bannage is tyrrannical, and trying to ride herd on every noob is impossible for GMs.  If a noob runs up and says, \"hey, hey, hey, hey, I\'m new, hey, hey, where\'s the fight?\" direct them to OOC, takes a line of text, that\'s all.  Rather than trying to make the world change to accommodate role players, they\'re gonna\' have to realise what they need to change to accommodate the world.  I know this game is supposed to be \"for role playing\", but I think we\'re going to have to collectively understand that ultima online was a silly little online game nobody paid attention to, until someone wanted to pay thousands of dollars for a castle--which shifted the dynamic considerably--at least in my mind.  I.e., the real world imposes itself because that\'s where your fantasy kingdom puts itself out to when it becomes free and/or public and/or downloadable.  If you want to create a roleplaying \"city on the hill\", it\'s going to have to be as exclusive and Puritanical as the Massachusetts colonies Winthrop created.  And just as ugly in its extremity.

[Kiern]

Originally posted by Vjorin
Kiern:  I was just explaining how people are hurting the experience of the game for other people who want the game for what it is intended for.  You are obviously one of the people I was talking about, otherwise you wouldn\'t have been so upset by my post.

I knew that as soon as I posted that you would automatically assume that because I defended them, you would immediatly assume that I was in fact one of them.  You\'re just that type of person.  But listen, I don\'t play the game, have never played the game, and never intend to play the game...and I\'ve never played any MMORPG therefore it makes it impossible for me to be \"one of the people\" you were talking about.
You were explaining nothing.  You were flaming people who don\'t roleplay, calling them ignorant and wasting their time by leveling themselves up and enjoying it.  And it is my conclusion that you are therefore an idiot.

[Karyuu]

Originally posted by Vjorin
I\'m just erked about the few people who intentionally tick off the RPers of the game with things such as emoting \"So and so durns your mom.\" repeatidly.

For such things, calling a GM to handle the problem is definitely the best answer, and I\'m glad that this is something you did. Things generally become really messy when players try to take matters into their own hands - and moreover, GMs can give official warnings and offer a boot to the arse if things become really bad. There will always be a troublemaker or two, but you don\'t have to deal with them constantly :) If someone is being a bother repeatedly, tell someone - player harassment isn\'t tolerated at all.

I would say it would be nice to have some kind of info screen displayed to people who create new characters, explaining the general rules of the game.

Alas, we have a pop-up for Naming Rules, but I still see people named \"Mister Pieman\" and \"Latvian Beast,\" to name some of the more amusing. No matter how much effort we may put into making players realize that we have rules, there will always be a few that will break them out of ignorance.

But I too would like a command that will bring up such a window - maybe one for /namingrules and another for /roleplayrules, etc.

Also, I thought it would be cool if, like the description button, there was a bio button, allowing you to set up your characters biography in a detailed, story like sense. With people doing that, it would allow GMs to set up small story lines around your character, or to better involved your character into the main ones, since the GMs would have a better understanding of where your character is comming from.

That\'s a pretty interesting request :) Though it will aid GMs only, since everyone else isn\'t supposed to know personal details about a character, without interacting with them. Another thing is that GMs don\'t usually have the time to read long story-like bios - unfortunately most of their time is spent rushing about helping players, and official events can\'t accomodate only a select few whose bios had the chance to be viewed. I know that a lot of the GMs would really love to help give character stories more depth through in-game actions, but the issue is mostly their lack of time.

It\'s more so to people who know the rules, have been playing for long enough to know them, and purposly break them just to tick people off.

That annoys me like nothing else, too :) But, /report!

What if there was a command in the game called OOC and a command called IC.  If people wish to play ICly, they would have IC activated.  If people wish to play OOCly, they activate the OOC.  What this could do is automatically put brackets around what they say, or some how otherwise designate to the other players that the character is OOC.

This suggestion was made a while ago, actually, and quite an amount of people thought it was a good idea. In a way, that is - for example, setting an OOC \"mode\" that puts parentheses around all your text without any more effort on your part is really inviting OOC conversations in, and designating them as acceptable. What would be nicer, in my opinion is just an /ooc command - maybe the text would show up in the chat window as a different color, and look a bit like: \"Karyuu\'s player says: yadda yadda.\" Or something better phrased ;)

And don\'t become too upset at Kiern :) He doesn\'t play the game, just spends some of his time on the forums. I don\'t particularly agree with his response in this case, but he usually acts as the cold, harsh voice of reality :P

[DeathsAngel]

Originally posted by Kiern
And it is my conclusion that you are therefore an idiot.

Erm.... I find this displace. Yes it was flamming post, too much at my opnion but telling him that he is an idiot isn\'t better.

[Kiern]

Originally posted by DeathsAngel
Erm.... I find this displace. Yes it was flamming post, too much at my opnion but telling him that he is an idiot isn\'t better.

You\'re right, of course, I was going to edit it to something different (my posts get heavily edited) but my roommate was yelling at me to help clean my apartment.  And it\'s not like the guy is going to listen to me anyways.

[fuiloco]

just for my two trias here, i like RP games but talking in charicer is almost impossible if your new. For one side of it your charicter hasn\'t developed. Next problem with that is those of us who don\'t live our lives in games sometimes forget and talk of OOC thing to friends. even somties the best forget to use the brackets of parenthisis.
Maybe thats just me.