Ideas to improve performance

[kinshadow]

Well, first off, its a MMORPG, not C&C online.  Don\'t expect hoards.   Next, 5 updates /sec for every actor seems a little high, but thats a moot point do to the fact that you can\'t probably approximate the bandwidth off just positional stats and non-compresible packet headers and error-checking codes will eat up more bandwidth than the game anyway.  In the end system, each new actor will have a range of data to queue up with everything from visible inventory (for building the mesh) to visual enhancements.  Never-the-less, bandwidth is still not that big of a concern with more of the action being interpolated more than you think (updates/sec will scale to your available bandwidth).  Hyper-accurate position is only important where aim is a factor.  With this being an RPG, I doubt that will be the case (see EQ style targeting for an example).  Also, I don\'t believe the \'zoning\' issue has been completely resolved.  I would like transparent zoning that scales nicely and maximizes bandwidth, but we\'ll see what comes up.  Lastly, I don\'t see what \"3D\" has anything to do with net-lag besides the fact you have a couple more coordinates.  The client does all the work for build and displaying the graphics, the network traffic just gives it the abstract data it needs (i.e. Bob the dwarf with Platemail and Shiny Sword and current position, then next position, then next, etc.).  Compression of the data-stream just adds more work for the client and server, leaving you less time and resources to do that labored 3D rendering.

Yes, the 3D performance (in fps) will go up with a dynamic (scaled to constant fps) or user configurable clipping plane (there is almost always a clipping plane, its just farther out to show off the world I imagine) and fog.  Then again, most slow speed you\'ve been seeing has been sovled with the new CrystalSpace engine.  Smart culling and good level design are much perfered to hacking off arbitrary scene data.  Possibly some good-old diminishing detail models a\'la terrain engines for larger scenes?  In the end Bigfoot is right, if you want a faster game, buy better hardware.  Yeah Capitalism!

[Bigfoot]

As of so far I havent seen anything to suggest a clipping plane in MB, and most of the time when i brought it up (ans will be bringing it up again with the coders) id get ignored or get told thered be one eventualy. Good level design is one thing and haveing a nice culling system is good to, but put those along an infinate Z axis and you still have considerable drops in FPS. Distacne fog is used to hide the clipping plane ^^...

But one thing you have to remeebr with your last statement is that a game has to be scalable in some way for as smany users as possable, and just haveing a top line system doesnt mean you can go nuts  in teh graphical department, Ive got quite a hefty machine and it still chugs at full settings in some situations on some games, you primarily want some 50-60FPS on your recommened machine specs 70%+ of the time, and at least a 30FPS frame rate on your minimum specs. the user shouldnt have to buy a new mahcine to play a single game. Nothing worse than devs that grossly lie about there games required specs.

might be wrong with this but, im not a capitalist and have quite a dislike for them myself... sorry if that comes over rude but im not sure of what context your last sentance was meant to be in.

heh im as red as a radish today, was working in teh garden and am like crispy bacon... got a heat headache and tired maybe even a bit of sun stroke ^^.

If any Devs read this sorry havent been in the Dev channel alot lately, been a little busy here and will be for at least another week and a half since its christmas. Ill get those models to you tommorrow Boon

now im off to take a disprin, and get some sleep... heads killin me

[Link]

Who cares about building/buying new PC\'s they are cheap. The cable and dsl companies just need to get off their lazy bums and run us rural people broadband!  X(

[Kiern]

Originally posted by Link
Who cares about building/buying new PC\'s they are cheap. The cable and dsl companies just need to get off their lazy bums and run us rural people broadband!  X(

yes, thats the best idea I have ever heard

[Cyonamie]

Considering I\'m pulling between 65-100 fps with a Radeon 7000, the low frame rates you guys are getting must be from voodoo cards or something :p

[kinshadow]

Originally posted by Bigfoot
As of so far I havent seen anything to suggest a clipping plane in MB, and most of the time when i brought it up (ans will be bringing it up again with the coders) id get ignored or get told thered be one eventualy.

The plane I\'m talking about is defined by your view frustum.  If they are specfically defining it by rendering to the farthest out polygon or making it insanely large, then I guess you can say it was \'turned off\'.

Originally posted by Bigfoot
 the user shouldnt have to buy a new mahcine to play a single game. Nothing worse than devs that grossly lie about there games required specs.

Scalable graphics is a given.  I think there will be enough options in the end game to allow anyone to get the performance they want.  This may mean things like turning off shadows and lowering your resolution, but the game will still look decent and be playable.

Originally posted by Bigfoot
might be wrong with this but, im not a capitalist and have quite a dislike for them myself... sorry if that comes over rude but im not sure of what context your last sentance was meant to be in.

That was a joke.  I wasn\'t implying that you support the Beast that is Capitalism.  Purhaps I should say \'Yeah Socialism! Free GeForce FX\'s for everyone!\'.

[Ragnarok]

Is streaming the world in the way of a 2D image possible?  Such that the client renders the world in view by processing a color coded 2d image sent by the server?  I realise that this would offload almost all the work onto the client (and im not sure if this isnt already done) but if a more efficient process for sending the user the world is not already in place, then the computer would have to render less that is not in view... im not sure how one would make a system like this, but if you could simplify the process of rendering what the server sent, then maybe users would experience less rendering based lag.

(Please tell me if im talking out of my @ss here... because while i am somewhat of a programer i have no experience with 3d rendering)

[boonet]

The server only sends players positions and such... the whole world is already included with the client. The engine actually spends a good amount of his time deciding what objects are possibly visible and which ones are not, in order to render to screen only the visible objects. If I understood correctly what you are saying (language differences may have created interpretation difficulties to me ), you want the server to render what each player sees and then send the image to each player. This is clearly absurd for different reasons:
a) if a client may have problems rendering what a single player sees, how could a server render what hundreds of players are seeing?
b) you expect a framerate of let\'s say 30FPS when playing: this means rendering 30 different images to screen every second. Do you imagine how much bandwidth would be necessary to transmit a 30 1280x1024 (in example) images each second to each player connected to the server?
You talk about rendering lag in your post, and I think you are referring to the freezing you may experience sometimes in the tech demo: well, that lag is absolutely not related to the rendering. It\'s a data exchange problem existing between client and server, nothing more.

[Vengeance]

Can an infinite number of semi-technical monkeys code a non-lagging MMORPG given an infinite amount of posts to a forum thread?  :-)

- Venge

[Jessyn]

well, it worked for war and peace, tolstoy had all those monkeys hidden away in his basement, and besides, we\'ve got more monkeys than he did.

Jessyn

[Ragnarok]

Originally posted by Vengeance
Can an infinite number of semi-technical monkeys code a non-lagging MMORPG given an infinite amount of posts to a forum thread?  :-)

HAHAH Thats one of the funniest things ever.

Originally posted by boonet
you want the server to render what each player sees and then send the image to each player.

Thats not really what i meant, but it was a stupid idea so dont worry about it. ^_^;;

[num4]

I just bought that card ...but i cant figure out how to turn off my old Integrated video card through the BIOS...how do you do that?  I am running Windows 98 SE on a HP.  ?(

[Culsoron]

I don\'t know much about programming, but its like everything else right. If you try to balance 20 plates you have to use a lot of strenght right. So if you cary the plates one at a time, and go 20 times its much easier. I think the simpler the code is the faster and more stable our beloved game is. As long as people struggle with little bandwith, dividing the game as most as possible without distroying the experience is my best sugestion. And cleaning up code is important I think.

[Monocle]

How can you check your fps in PS?  This game doesn\'t run that well and i have a Radeon 8500 LE, AMD Athlon xp 1700+, 256 ddr, and I get a 8000 in 3d Mark 2002 SE.
hmm... i do have wierd stuttering problems in other games, could be that too.  If someone had the same problem please help me!