Stat Limits

[Sangwa]

I apologize if this has been covered before, but I searched for the words in the subject and nothing satisfying showed.

It\'s my opinion that in PS\'s setting different races (and while we\'re on it, character backgrounds) should have different limits and progression times.

\"Why, oh why!?\"

Because, like I usualy say, what we have currently is a bit unrealistic. It\'s highly unprobable, for example, that the max strength a Kran can attain is the same of a Lemur. Unless this Lemur has gone through uncanny efforts in his past, alien to most mortals.
The same thing with progression time. A kran can be expected to succeed very well at weight lifting, but it\'ll be harder for him to become a scholar.

I think my point is very clear. But please, do post your questions and opinions.

EDIT:
Bebel has posted the same idea, in a thread of Draklar\'s. But I think it wasn\'t given proper attention (or arguments.)

[Suno_Regin]

You beat me to posting this, but, they already have something like this planned.

If you read the races section, at the very bottom of a selected race, they will state the starting strength, agility, etc. points that they will eventually have to raise themselves. Now, because we can create our character\'s past actions/events, those stats will vary. Depending on what happened then, and what happened as they played, their stats should go as high as what they had trained it to. Now, it is a bit confusing. This is our current system, but I agree, a Kran would be much stronger than a Lemur, AT THE BEGINNING, but if that Lemur trained him or her self to be stronger than a Kran, that is what they should be. Also, there should be limits to stats, a Lemur should only be able to excel so far in strength, and should be able to go further in intelligence. A Kran would be the exact opposite.

[Gripen]

I\'m not quite sure what kind of stat limits your encouraging.

I understand that there are already stat limits of 800--mainly for gm.  I also understand that the game is designed to prevent a sort of in game racism, so that no race is preferred over the other--therefore design has it that they all can progress in all stats as far as any other.

Also, I\'ve read in the manual that different races already have some kind of code written in so that it is easier for some to progress in certain stats than others. For instance, a Kran can progress in strength easier than a Xacha, but a Xacha can progress in intelligence easier than a Kran--and if my memory serves me elves get agility and endurance.  However, who knows if these stat mechanics codes are currently functioning.

My opinion is with what I read of the game, stat limits on one race but not another would be discriminating--but to have one race be able to develop a stat which is IC, so to speak, easier than one that is OOC--that makes sense. (I understand it is already implemented.)  I would not approve at all of making it a \"hindrance\" for a character to improve a stat that is ooc--for that would promote racism--if the game were to be about that then they\'d have to hinder genders and pretty soon you have a racist mostly single gendered game of players, because of the disadvantages of being hindered.  Hinderances to progress are hindrances, and I don\'t think they should be laid on any character--unless it is an optional hinderance one can lay upon themselves, like horrible facial scars, or a peg leg.

[Suno_Regin]

So, what you\'re saying is...one race can gain stats faster than another? Nice thinking, it\'ll at least keep one from raising as high as they want. =P

[Sangwa]

What I\'m proposing is that since one has a race and background, it should influence your training and how far you can succeed on a skill.

I\'m not sure about this, but I think stats will have max values, which you won\'t be able to surpass. It\'s my opinion that the strongest of krans should be stronger than the strongest of Lemurs. Because the Krans\' body is better suited for hosting strenght.

[derwoodly]

You mean something like.

Kran start str 100 max 400

Lemur start str 40 max 120

Makes sense to me.  I don\'t think it is racest, just good physics.

[DaveG]

The stat max is 400 and the skill max is 200.  Nothing trains over 150 in-game, though.

Putting limits based on race/etc is a bad idea.  If a Kran studies enough, there\'s nothing preventing their intelligence from getting high, it just might be harder.  The plan, I believe, is to give different races different traits which would sway their development process.  However, I don\'t ever want to ever have someone banned from doing something due to a character creation choice.  Choices should be a starting point for how to play, not decide everything.

[Pestilence]

hmm well I can agree why you would have different max stats, but I think that that indeed wouldn\'t be fair as when you start you normally don\'t know yet what good and whats not (working).

But I think it would be fair to have races have an advantage in raising some skills becuase they have a natural aptitude for it.

Would call those bonusses yes as that always sound more positive and thats easy to explain aswell

[derwoodly]

I don\'t get the big adversion to haveing racial limits on characters. Some of the beter games have them.  If I play a Kran and I speak in short sentances with a lot of words that sound like grunts more than words I am not going to be personally offeneded if some one insults my characters intelegence.

What I hear you saying is that a dedicated player could make a 400 int spell casting Kran wizzard.  What I see happening is players with way too much time on there hands will make characters that will add nothing to roleplay or the games ballance.

[Gripen]

I still have to agree with Dave and the current design, based on the process of development, but no to the limits being different for each race.  Just to be fair to all players--especially those who spend enough time to actually max their limits.

I would condone the in game ability to train up to max, but perhaps it isn\'t necessary with the current conditions a player would face--no use being able to smash the most powerful monster in the game with one wipe while running.  Still, for the interest of the people who play it forever, so to speak.

[derwoodly]

Fair to all of the players? Thats the part I don\'t get.  You chose to play the race you want.  The only thing that would not be fair would be to lie to the players and tell them one particular race is not as smart as the others, then find out in game the information in the players guide is just lore and in game physics work differently and all the races behave identically the difference is all cosmetic.

If all the races are able to achive the same physical strength, intelegence, skill, etc.  The players guide shoudl reflect this.  Most games will tell you that the difference between sexes in the game is cosmetic, but the difference between races is real.

[Pestilence]

Do agree with Derwood on that one. The differences between races should be more then just the starting values and cosmetics.

But if stat maxes are the way to go... Things like nightvision might be a better way to make differences between races.

[Sangwa]

Originally posted by derwoodly
Fair to all of the players? Thats the part I don\'t get.  You chose to play the race you want.  The only thing that would not be fair would be to lie to the players and tell them one particular race is not as smart as the others, then find out in game the information in the players guide is just lore and in game physics work differently and all the races behave identically the difference is all cosmetic.

If all the races are able to achive the same physical strength, intelegence, skill, etc.  The players guide shoudl reflect this.  Most games will tell you that the difference between sexes in the game is cosmetic, but the difference between races is real.

Exactly my point of view.

We should consider the stats\' max limits as the body\'s limits. And a Kran\'s body is diferent than a Lemur\'s.

[Mindari]

We should consider the stats\' max limits as the body\'s limits. And a Kran\'s body is diferent than a Lemur\'s.

only by default. a lemur who weight-trained every day of his life could well turn tougher than a kran. also, although rock is hard wearing, it is also less volatile than organic stuff, meaning less power and strength (e.g. the difference between burning oil and burning petrol)

[Pestilence]

The question is if it is realistic to say a Lemur who weighttrains every day could become as strong as a Kran who does the same.

We are herby asuming that Krans are normally stronger then Lemurs.