A few ideas.

[r.guppy]

1. On death you get a box appears asking you to tick a box.

 A. Loss of 1000 tria.
 B. Loss of half your PP.
 C. Loss of  weapon or equipment. [1 item]
 D. for new answer a question on game. [within one month]

 2. Trainers.

 A. Each town has a arena, with a second tier for trainers of weapons. Each room has five trainers in a skill. [same skill all levels]
 B Outside each Town a magi academy. Six rooms. Two trainers in each room. [same skill all levels]
 C. Suggest mock training [animation] to simulate training, and one click to train level. [ Provided you have right amount of tria and PP]

 3. Master forge for smithy skills. [suggested place Hyddla]

 4. Alchemy and Herbal school. A master in each. [suggested place Hyddla]

 5. Training mine. one master miner. [suggested place magic shop]

 6. L/M/Heavy armor trainers in arena, a room in second tier.

 7. Guilds have a master Trainer. [NPC] placed in their guild Building [when they get one] trains all magic and weapons skills, all levels.
 

[VMann]

1) http://www.planeshift3d.com/wbboard/thread.php?threadid=17798&boardid=11&styleid=4

2) You want an arena and a magic school for every city? Realism?

It sounds as if you were tired of searching the right people to have a training, so there should be trainers EVERYWHERE. This idea is just good for nothing.

3) about the death penalty: see 1) and post to a related thread!

[Karyuu]

#7 makes no sense without further explanations. (Why?)

#6 is related to #2

#5 also makes no sense without further explanations (why one master miner? Isn\'t Harnquist one already?).

#4 isn\'t convincing enough - why would be need entire schools instead of trainers right now? How will a school/academy work?

#3 is weird - Harnquist already has a forge in Hydlaa, and once smithy skills are introducted, there will be a trainer for \'em.

#2 - I really hate towns all cut out of the same mold. I want variety. Once we know how every town in the entire world is laid out, it gets boring, and feels like you\'re in the same city throughout the whole of Yliakum - regardless of the different architecture.

#1 also isn\'t convincing without a further discussion. Why those choices? How will they work? Obviously one may be ridiculously conveniently better for a certain character than another, and won\'t be fair at all. Upon death, you\'ll go to the DR and things will occur there - not in a box, especially not if it involves answering a question, solving a riddle, etc.

Detail detail detail :) Feed us.

[r.guppy]

By VMann
It sounds as if you were tired of searching the right people to have a training, so there should be trainers EVERYWHERE. This idea is just good for nothing.

 No not at all i am 15 short of max on axe, 8 short of max blue way, all the rest i have Maxed. [ALL stats and skills]

 The idea was to have a common place to train, to STOP the moaners saying why have you got you swords drawn in town.

 The reason i have my swords or axe drawn in town is to train. It stands to reason you need a axe in hand or sword to train it, so before moaning about  you got a weapons try asking why, or assume they are training.

 

By Karyuu
#7 makes no sense without further explanations. (Why?)

#6 is related to #2  

#5 also makes no sense without further explanations (why one master miner? Isn\'t Harnquist one already?).

#4 isn\'t convincing enough - why would be need entire schools instead of trainers right now? How will a school/academy work?

#3 is weird - Harnquist already has a forge in Hydlaa, and once smithy skills are introducted, there will be a trainer for \'em.

#2 - I really hate towns all cut out of the same mold. I want variety. Once we know how every town in the entire world is laid out, it gets boring, and feels like you\'re in the same city throughout the whole of Yliakum - regardless of the different architecture.

#1 also isn\'t convincing without a further discussion. Why those choices? How will they work? Obviously one may be ridiculously conveniently better for a certain character than another, and won\'t be fair at all. Upon death, you\'ll go to the DR and things will occur there - not in a box, especially not if it involves answering a question, solving a riddle, etc.

Detail detail detail Feed us.

 7. Is just a extra for guilds. [A bonus if you like for guilds] So members of a guild can train.

 6. True same category, but felt it was a separate skill.

 5. It was to free up Harnquist and to add a bit of realism.
 
 4. The main reason was to centralize trainers in a certain skill and remove the need to have weapons drown in towns.

 3. This again is to me not realistic to have on man do all that he does [skills to train] and run a shop. Also his little forge would not be capable of training all smithy skills. Repair weapons repair amour, and i intended for making weapons and items also to be included in this. i meant to edit Hyddla for Ojaveda as that is were the means to make weapons and items is planed to be. [so i believe]

 2. Yes i agree but until flying [ridder mounts] and teleport is introduced it would make more sense to have a main area for training in each city or town. As in Hyddla these would be outside town limits, were posable. As i fell these are at the moment the main things to do skill wise, and most players would benefit from it in the short term.

 1. This is to give you a chose as to the penalty you get when you die. Also when the game is ready for version one, this will be a good way to get ride of your vast amounts of PP.

[Karyuu]

Originally posted by r.guppy
7. Is just a extra for guilds. [A bonus if you like for guilds] So members of a guild can train.

No, there is no realism in this at all. So a random trainer of all skills (which you argued against in your post as well) suddenly comes over to live in a guild house and trains all members, even when there are (supposedly) arenas and training centers? Again, makes no sense :P

The main reason was to centralize trainers in a certain skill and remove the need to have weapons drown in towns.

#4 dealt with Alchemy and Herbal schools :P What does that have to do with weapons?

2. Yes i agree but until flying [ridder mounts] and teleport is introduced it would make more sense to have a main area for training in each city or town. As in Hyddla these would be outside town limits, were posable. As i fell these are at the moment the main things to do skill wise, and most players would benefit from it in the short term.

A short term modeling and coding of arenas and training centers and magic schools is sure a heck of a lot of effort, for something supposedly short term. Besides, not every town is supposed to be a convenient little center of everything. Yes you will have to walk further, yes it might take a lot of time, but it will be far more realistic than have every single town provide exactly the same resources. This still gets a no from me.

This is to give you a chose as to the penalty you get when you die. Also when the game is ready for version one, this will be a good way to get ride of your vast amounts of PP.

When this game is ready for version 1, vast amounts of PP won\'t be a problem ;) I\'m wondering why you chose the penalties you chose - your reasoning behind them - especially since after training, a character may have only a few PPs they wouldn\'t mind losing instead of any of the other choices. It doesn\'t seem balanced to me. But what this your aim?

[Houlen Aru]

Well, it would be a problem, actually. Say it takes about five points to train a sword for a newbie; That newbie trains on rats, gaining 40 Experience Points for each kill. Now, if that newbie dies, they would be losing 2.5 points, which at 40 Experience Points per kill, would take a long time to gain back. Someone of a higher level would also have the same problem. They have about 2000 PPs, and they train on Trepors, which give 2 each. Now that I mention it, this is a worse problem. If they die, and lose 1000 PPs, which is half, it would take them 500 Trepor kills to gain those back. The punishment seems balanced to me.

[r.guppy]

Originally posted by r.guppy
7. Is just a extra for guilds. [A bonus if you like for guilds] So members of a guild can train.

By Karyuu
No, there is no realism in this at all. So a random trainer of all skills (which you argued against in your post as well) suddenly comes over to live in a guild house and trains all members, even when there are (supposedly) arenas and training centers? Again, makes no sense

 This is set in a Medieval time, so yes it would be realistic for a guild to have there own master trainer.

 

2. Yes i agree but until flying [ridder mounts] and teleport is introduced it would make more sense to have a main area for training in each city or town. As in Hyddla these would be outside town limits, were posable. As i fell these are at the moment the main things to do skill wise, and most players would benefit from it in the short term.


A short term modeling and coding of arenas and training centers and magic schools is sure a heck of a lot of effort, for something supposedly short term. Besides, not every town is supposed to be a convenient little center of everything. Yes you will have to walk further, yes it might take a lot of time, but it will be far more realistic than have every single town provide exactly the same resources. This still gets a no from me.

 Once these are in place as new skills become available thy can be recoded for example [music school anglers club.] I hoped the Magic schools would remain as  it would be more real to have them trained out of town.

 

When this game is ready for version 1, vast amounts of PP won\'t be a problem I\'m wondering why you chose the penalties you chose - your reasoning behind them - especially since after training, a character may have only a few PPs they wouldn\'t mind losing instead of any of the other choices. It doesn\'t seem balanced to me. But what this your aim?

 It will be a problem because when you are at that stag, once you have trained all that is posable to train, there is at moment no way of getting rid of them. But that is not the main reason, it is to give you a say in what you loss.

[nightstalian]

Originally posted by r.guppy
 1. On death you get a box appears asking you to tick a box.

 A. Loss of 1000 tria.
 B. Loss of half your PP.
 C. Loss of  weapon or equipment. [1 item]
 D. for new answer a question on game. [within one month]

 2. Trainers.

 A. Each town has a arena, with a second tier for trainers of weapons. Each room has five trainers in a skill. [same skill all levels]
 B Outside each Town a magi academy. Six rooms. Two trainers in each room. [same skill all levels]
 C. Suggest mock training [animation] to simulate training, and one click to train level. [ Provided you have right amount of tria and PP]

 3. Master forge for smithy skills. [suggested place Hyddla]

 4. Alchemy and Herbal school. A master in each. [suggested place Hyddla]

 5. Training mine. one master miner. [suggested place magic shop]

 6. L/M/Heavy armor trainers in arena, a room in second tier.

 7. Guilds have a master Trainer. [NPC] placed in their guild Building [when they get one] trains all magic and weapons skills, all levels.
 

no it would ruin a perfectly good time

[Karyuu]

Originally posted by r.guppy
This is set in a Medieval time, so yes it would be realistic for a guild to have there own master trainer.

I fail to see that ;) Did all guilds in the medieval times have their own personal trainers of all skills? High guild members may teach their own lower members what they have learned, and player-to-player training has been proposed and discussed before, but a completely separate all-skill NPC trainer in each guild house is not a realistic proposal.

Once these are in place as new skills become available thy can be recoded for example [music school anglers club.] I hoped the Magic schools would remain as  it would be more real to have them trained out of town.

Let\'s not get too off track - I was replying about your idea concerning every town having an arena and every town having a nearby magic school. I said that this was too convenient and unrealistic.

It will be a problem because when you are at that stag, once you have trained all that is posable to train, there is at moment no way of getting rid of them. But that is not the main reason, it is to give you a say in what you loss.

When you are at a stage when you have trained all that is possible to train, losing PP won\'t matter at all. So again I fail to see, from your arguments, how this would punish someone. Yes if would be nice to have a say in what you lose, but it would be a lot nicer if you can lose it through more RP in-game mechanics, such as sacrificing an item to an actual DR God or entity, being actually sapped of energy (or PP), actually talking to a DR NPC and solving a riddle of answering a question, etc. A simple box just isn\'t enough.

[Celebrimor]

Originally posted by r.guppy
 1. On death you get a box appears asking you to tick a box.

 A. Loss of 1000 tria.
 B. Loss of half your PP.
 C. Loss of  weapon or equipment. [1 item]
 D. for new answer a question on game. [within one month]

... No comment

Originally posted by r.guppy
 2. Trainers.

 A. Each town has a arena, with a second tier for trainers of weapons. Each room has five trainers in a skill. [same skill all levels]
 B Outside each Town a magi academy. Six rooms. Two trainers in each room. [same skill all levels]
 C. Suggest mock training [animation] to simulate training, and one click to train level. [ Provided you have right amount of tria and PP]

So everyone in this world is freakin awesome!!! Every city has people that master  EVERY SKILL IN THE WORLD!!! How great!, now all cities will have a great reputation because they have masters and the others don\'t.... oh, wait...

Training animation could be cool though.  And I agree, you should be able to train each level\'s knowledge all at once if you had the necesary PPs and tria, rather than clicking  for every single PP.

Originally posted by r.guppy
 3. Master forge for smithy skills. [suggested place Hyddla]

Eventually it\'ll come.

Originally posted by r.guppy
 4. Alchemy and Herbal school. A master in each. [suggested place Hyddla]

A good thing to have, Alchemy schools and Herbal schools. It\'d be ok to have schools in most cities, but Masters should be harder to find.

Originally posted by r.guppy
 5. Training mine. one master miner. [suggested place magic shop]

Yeah, I thought  Harnquist was the one. It\'d be cool to have a mining town and have a master miner work (or live, if retired) near there, but still, not so easy to find.

Originally posted by r.guppy
 6. L/M/Heavy armor trainers in arena, a room in second tier.

I am strongly against trainers in arena. Why would someone go to the arena to teach the theoretical knowledge of any skill in a place where you\'re supposed to train the practical aspects.

Originally posted by r.guppy
 7. Guilds have a master Trainer. [NPC] placed in their guild Building [when they get one] trains all magic and weapons skills, all levels.

Oh, so it would definitely make sense to have a dark way master in the Guild of Baker\'s. Remember, Guilds aren\'t societies meant for ultimate power (ok, some might, but it wouldnt make sense to have master Cooks in them, now, would it. Same thing), they\'re organizations where people with similar jobs, skills or goals gather to help each other. It would make sense to have a trainer who could train guild members to the highest skill level existent inside the guild, so if you\'re a guild of mercenaries specialized in sword fightig, sure, have someone who can train guild members, to make them stronger, but only as far as the most able guild member is skilled. Say you\'re the leader of that guild, and your sword skill is lvl 10, then you can surely train someone who will take care of training newcomers to make your guild stronger, but I ask, could you train him to a higher level? I don\'t think so, so it doesn\'t make sense to have a master trainer, unless there are masters inside the guild, as well as it wouldn\'t make sense to have Master Jewlers in an Alchemist\'s guild. I hope I made mi point clear, and not to confusing, as it sometimes happens.

[r.guppy]

1. On death you get a box appears asking you to tick a box.

A. Loss of 1000 tria.

 This can be role played as a thief stealing your purse, for example, or you find you have lost your tria through a hole in your pouch.

B. Loss of half your PP.

 This can be due to a fall and you lost part of your memory, or a blow from a Karcass fight, same thing, a blow to head renders you with partial memory loss.

C. Loss of weapon or equipment. [1 item]

 Again through theft or an offering to the gods for a safe passage out and back to the real world.

D. for new answer a question on game. [within one month]

 You are incouraged to read the players guide so you should know a few basic things.

 2. Trainers.

 A. Each town has an arena, with a second tier for trainers of weapons. Each room has five trainers in a skill. [same skill all levels]  

This is intended as a temporary solution for all cities towns, except one. to  A. cut out need for weapons drawn in cities or towns. B. Also till we have a faster means of getting to each place. These could be changed to eg. archery school etc or relocated or deleted.
 
B Outside each Town a magi academy. Six rooms. Two trainers in each room. [same skill all levels]

 I feel this is a must as there will be a need to practice as you learn your skill and in a populated areas it would be very dangerous to cast spells.Also i accept that it would not be realistic to train all levels, so each school trains different levels.

C. Suggest mock training [animation] to simulate training, and one click to train level. [ Provided you have right amount of tria and PP]

 3. Master forge for smithy skills. [suggested place Ojaveda]

 This i feel is not too much to ask as the two existing smithys had to train somewhere themselves.

 4. Alchemy and Herbal school. A master in each. [suggested place Hyddla]
 
  On reflection i would place this at the magic shop as it would be handy for Levrus, and he has a lab in his basment.

 5. Training mine. one master miner. [suggested place near magic shop]

  This way it can be done both at once, train and practice. I like the idea of a retired old miner in charge. [ Also the gold could be shared with trainer as payment and a stake for the new to begin.

 6. L/M/Heavy armor trainers in arena, a room in second tier.

  This too in arena second tier.

  7. Guilds have a master Trainer. [NPC] placed in their guild Building [when they get one] trains all magic and weapons skills, all levels.

  Depending on what your guild does a master trainer. This is just a bonus for guilds. Or it could be a way for guilds to make Tria. [money] If the master has the say top 5 levels in a chosen skill. or Stat.

[Karyuu]

Janner, you have already explained :) Your job now is to convince. I don\'t see most of those ideas (particularly the ones I\'ve commented on several times) as necessary, or well-formed.

Please answer my following questions:

1. Wouldn\'t it be better to have a death penalty actually played out in the Death Realm, instead of choosing your penalty from a box?

2. Modeling separate arenas for each town is again a lot of effort for a temporary solution - and they will have to be different, because reusing the same arena design over and over is just plain boring. Do you think this is actually worth it? Do you think this will add any variety to the towns of Yliakum at all?

3. Do you feel that the same design used over and over for a magic school outside every town will provide anything interesting to players besides skills? How will the exact same architecture be explained throughout every town, and the world? Do we have a band of wandering builders?

4. What is the RP explanation for a guild \"owning\" a master trainer?

[zanzibar]

Originally posted by r.guppy
 7. Guilds have a master Trainer. [NPC] placed in their guild Building [when they get one] trains all magic and weapons skills, all levels.

I haven\'t seen any good ideas.... this one in particular is just plain bad.  Why?  What\'s the justification for it?

\"Hey, we\'re the best guild with all the leet exploits!  Join us and you\'ll get a free sword, a million trias, and access to our guild trainer!\"

[Nyramael]

Here are my thoughts on the ideas in response to Karyuu\'s questions.

1. A DR quest or task to get out sounds great but it wouldn\'t be practical now - too many deaths to falling through floor and so on. I think i read somewhere that \'they\' were going to expand the death realm so that you could have \'life\' there.

2. In all honesty i don\'t think an arena in every town would be real. It would not suite the demographics of some cities to be i.e. the lemurs or xacha would probably have a library the size of the Hydlaa arena. I think the intent of the Ylaans was to have a race similar to us, and so i think the arena in hydlaa is quite plausible.

3. Karyuu also has a good point here. In the player guide it says that farmers and warriors are happy to see Wizards of the white way because of their healing skills, but general people regard them as a bad omen. I think there should only be one magic academy as such if any, and that should be near one of the temples.

4. In my opinion what would be ideal is a balanced system where characters of a certain level can train lower level characters in any skill. This would let experienced tradesmen/warriors earn a living through teaching. However, this has obvious problems like players becoming insanely rich. This could be countered by some role-playing where characters can turn down certain pupils. Perhaps a job for GMs or certain players who have been about for awhile, noted RPs, or people with yay many advisor points?

my 2 tria (or 4 )

[Karyuu]

Huzzah, someone answered :)

Originally posted by Nyramael
1. A DR quest or task to get out sounds great but it wouldn\'t be practical now - too many deaths to falling through floor and so on. I think i read somewhere that \'they\' were going to expand the death realm so that you could have \'life\' there. :P

Indeed, I found myself sharing this info frequently ;) Real DR penalties just aren\'t an option until everything else is more stable - otherwise there will be just too many complaints to handle about bugs, and things won\'t be enjoyable at all. However, discussing some future-but-not-too-far-away ideas is pretty harmless.

Agreed with the middle two responses, and:

4. In my opinion what would be ideal is a balanced system where characters of a certain level can train lower level characters in any skill. This would let experienced tradesmen/warriors earn a living through teaching.

Player-to-player training has been proposed, and generally well-liked. If I can just hunt down some previous threads.... Ah, here we are.

Player training thought out a bit more
Training by PCs
Player Training

If you\'re interested, there are some tasty bits sprinkled throughout the threads.