Roleplaying in PS

[Karyuu]

Night Typhorean!

Originally posted by Pestilence
hmmm so your answer is becuase you are afraid someone might feel there is a favorite, that there won\'t be anything done at all. Yep that\'s an example of how you do encourage people alright.

Those were just the first reasons that came to mind. Again, if you want more information, please talk to Talad. GMing is a very sensitive issue, as proven in the past. So far previous events have went well, but they were done by a separate RM team - not by people who also have to deal with bug reporting, OOC issues, player misbehavior, etc. It becomes a little more complicated.

And well ofcourse the example of Jose is now hinderd somewhat by practical problems but it is an example and as you said almost half the GMS can already do it and there are more ways then that a GM could involve player events without having to spawn things that benefit a player.

There is also a lack of time, as I said. The GM team is just not at a stage right now where spontaneous fun things can be provided at any moment. We\'re all really really really hoping for and working towards a change, but at this particular point in time, it\'s difficult. There are many things to juggle at once.

As for mechanics being implemented. Ofcourse it\'s true they are a great help, but in the end they should help make the RP more enjoyable so hardly worth the effort if you kill the RP in the proces.

What mechanics that have been implemented have killed RP?

Also many mechanics in my opinion would also be made better if the ones making it know how the world looks like and have a better idea of what would fit in the game instead of later making a story that seems to fit the mechanics.

This is what got me the most. Do you actually think that the dev team implements random things and then structures a story and an RP reason around them? I thought it was a given that things work the other way around.

*edited to add* The GM issue kinda snuck in here indirectly. I believe the main topic was the dev team\'s negligence of RP and RP-encouragement, which I strongly disagree with.

[Pestilence]

Well lets do it the other way around then. Why don\'t you give me examples of what the dev-team has done over the last year. I think if you compare that with what is already been mentioned that you can hardly come to that conclusion.

As for the GMing I agree that is a different matter, but it is obviously also part of the problem that there are few GMs right now that are ofcourse busy right now with their primary jobs.

Turning to the others

I do believe roleplaying IS a playeroriented event first. This is also why I do not prefer organized events by the GMs. They do add something but playerstated RPing is normally deeper and better in my opinion.

This however doesn\'t mean the devs shouldn\'t do anything in my opinion either. Specially to make it easy for the newcomers to interact in roleplaying there should be actions.

Also to simply give people the idea they are part of a greater group then just the few you might just be roleplaying with at that moment.

Also other games have already proven that if the devs do not do anything to encourage it it isn\'t going to happen. Sad but true.

Also I feel that the official history for example should be deeper. There should be more known about how the world came to be as it is right now like for example how Ylikum got this rather strange governing system if you look at things like travel and such. Just to make the world clearer to the ones living in it.

Also quests so far I feel have given hardly any insight into the Yliakum mind so to speak and I feel much more could be done this way to drag people into the world in a fun way.

Last why do I feel the \"playing-age\" of people is important is simply becuase many people need to learn how to roleplay. Ofcourse there are a few who already know how but the majjorirty doesn\'t know even if it was just becuase roleplaying in a chatbox is different then in RL with D&D. Learning takes time and so if people leave earlier it\'s simple cause and effect that the quality of the roleplaying will go down.

[Karyuu]

Originally posted by Pestilence
Well lets do it the other way around then. Why don\'t you give me examples of what the dev-team has done over the last year. I think if you compare that with what is already been mentioned that you can hardly come to that conclusion.

No :> 1) I asked first, 2) you\'re the one making the argument. I already said (must this really be repeated so often?) that stable code and the beginnings of more features are very important and this is their primary area of concentration. You have yet to tell me how any of their work has \"killed\" roleplay.

As for the GMing I agree that is a different matter, but it is obviously also part of the problem that there are few GMs right now that are ofcourse busy right now with their primary jobs.

Yes it is a problem, but we\'re in such an early state! You can\'t expect everything to happen at once, or so quickly. Things like this take time, and no one is just sitting around twiddling their thumbs.

I do believe roleplaying IS a playeroriented event first. This is also why I do not prefer organized events by the GMs. They do add something but playerstated RPing is normally deeper and better in my opinion.

Agreed. So why the rest of the argument for even further dev and GM involvement?

Specially to make it easy for the newcomers to interact in roleplaying there should be actions.

Please share specifics when you\'re suggesting something. What actions? What would you specifically like to see?

Also other games have already proven that if the devs do not do anything to encourage it it isn\'t going to happen. Sad but true.

Are you saying that the team isn\'t encouraging RP at all? Are we playing the same game?

Also I feel that the official history for example should be deeper. There should be more known about how the world came to be as it is right now like for example how Ylikum got this rather strange governing system if you look at things like travel and such. Just to make the world clearer to the ones living in it.

Full agreement there, revealing more of the setting would be delicious.

Also quests so far I feel have given hardly any insight into the Yliakum mind so to speak and I feel much more could be done this way to drag people into the world in a fun way.

More quests and more in-depth quests have and will be added :)

Last why do I feel the \"playing-age\" of people is important is simply becuase many people need to learn how to roleplay. Ofcourse there are a few who already know how but the majjorirty doesn\'t know even if it was just becuase roleplaying in a chatbox is different then in RL with D&D. Learning takes time and so if people leave earlier it\'s simple cause and effect that the quality of the roleplaying will go down.

We can\'t control who leaves and who doesn\'t. As I said, I personally don\'t remember any long-staying member of the community giving up because the dev team hasn\'t been encouraging enough roleplay (maybe you can share a name or two?). I honestly believe that the team is working as hard as they can, but some things must be done first. Don\'t forget our version number.

[zanzibar]

Originally posted by Pestilence
One of the great things about PS is it\'s community and it\'s focus on roleplaying inside the game. It\'s a plus that makes a certain group of people return for what they don\'t find in other games.

There are many different groups of people that keep coming back.  It\'s not just one group of people where everybody knows everybody else.

Originally posted by Pestilence
One can notice the avarage PS playing age decreasing. 6 months ago you would find players who have been around for over 18 months. Now finding people from before CB\'s release is pretty hard. Specially ingame.

Mmmm..... fresh blooood.....

[Pestilence]

No :> 1) I asked first, 2) you\'re the one making the argument. I already said (must this really be repeated so often?) that stable code and the beginnings of more features are very important and this is their primary area of concentration. You have yet to tell me how any of their work has \"killed\" roleplay.

You asked for a list of things I felt the devs should be doing. I gave example of what I felt the dev team could do that it isn\'t at the moment. You did not ask for a list of things that killed roleplaying and you are argumenting that I am tottally wrong so if I give a list at your request asking one in return becuase I feel your arguments are not vallid should be normal. I also never said the dev team WAS killing RP I was saying that with neglect you risk doing this. I think the neglect part has already been proven and so I asked a list in return.

Also a question. Why if you don\'t want dev bashing threads are you trying to make me do this?

We can\'t control who leaves and who doesn\'t. As I said, I personally don\'t remember any long-staying member of the community giving up because the dev team hasn\'t been encouraging enough roleplay (maybe you can share a name or two?). I honestly believe that the team is working as hard as they can, but some things must be done first. Don\'t forget our version number.

I\'m trying to have an argument that doesn\'t play on the man. But you know very well there have been people. you are one of the people who reads almost anything in the forums so to pretend there has been not even one is just funny if it wasn\'t so sad.

Please share specifics when you\'re suggesting something. What actions? What would you specifically like to see?

This asking for details everytime while giving none in return seems to become a one way street but fine an example again then.

How I see the devs via GMs or spinners is making the larger events like there have been a few, but also events specificly targeting the new player. exploration of the world events. It shouldn\'t be to hard to get the new players to participate and I am sure you can find people who like helping new players that aren\'t GMs so you wouldn\'t have to do it on your own either.

I honestly believe that the team is working as hard as they can, but some things must be done first. Don\'t forget our version number.

Seems like a valid point but again thats a version number to how far the mechanics are. The fact is that the story is behind atm while that should be the part already ahead of the mechanics becuase so much can already been done without all the machinics in place.

Like writing in depth quests or writing a tuely good hostory of places and races.

It would also make more of the fanart appropriate for use as the ones who read everything will have to make less asumptions that may turn out differently in Yliakum.

[Karyuu]

Originally posted by Pestilence
I gave example of what I felt the dev team could do that it isn\'t at the moment.

Unless I missed something (apologies), all of your examples involved GMs and not the dev team. You said in a previous post:

As for mechanics being implemented. Ofcourse it\'s true they are a great help, but in the end they should help make the RP more enjoyable so hardly worth the effort if you kill the RP in the proces.

Thus insinuating that something the dev team has implemented actually killed RP. I would like to know what you are referring to.

You did not ask for a list of things that killed roleplaying and you are argumenting that I am tottally wrong so if I give a list at your request asking one in return becuase I feel your arguments are not vallid should be normal.

Why don\'t you give me examples of what the dev-team has done over the last year.

I can\'t seriously make that list, I hope you realize. I suppose taking lists of the updates from the main page would work, but that\'s really incomplete. They\'ve done a ton of things.

I think the neglect part has already been proven and so I asked a list in return.

I don\'t think it\'s been proven. I agree that much hasn\'t been done in terms of events, but I also explained many reasons for this.

Why if you don\'t want dev bashing threads are you trying to make me do this?

I am trying to make you bash the devs? Don\'t misunderstand the argument or my position. I feel like you\'re pushing for things the team (both dev and GM) aren\'t ready for yet, so I\'m both trying to explain this and try to find out what you\'re arguing for, exactly.

But you know very well there have been people. you are one of the people who reads almost anything in the forums so to pretend there has been not even one is just funny if it wasn\'t so sad.

I\'m not pretending anything, thanks. I honestly can\'t remember, so excuse me for my evidently faulty memory. So now instead of making comments like these, maybe you can actually give me a few names of old members that left because the dev team hasn\'t been encouraging RP enough.

How I see the devs via GMs or spinners is making the larger events like there have been a few, but also events specificly targeting the new player.

Pestilence, GMs are not part of the dev team. If you\'re talking about GM interaction with players, then please leave the dev team out of it unless you\'re making some direct point. Large events are not an easy thing to set up, and many of them have smaller steps leading up to the climax - all events are meant to target new players - invite them into the world, show what roleplay is and how much fun it can be, get them to make friends with others, etc.

It shouldn\'t be to hard to get the new players to participate and I am sure you can find people who like helping new players that aren\'t GMs so you wouldn\'t have to do it on your own either.

Players also help newcomers all the time. What is your point? Honestly :/

Like writing in depth quests or writing a tuely good hostory of places and races.

As I said, in-depth quests will be made available. Just not today, and not tomorrow. These things take time. Is your entire argument that we aren\'t doing things \"fast enough\"?

It would also make more of the fanart appropriate for use as the ones who read everything will have to make less asumptions that may turn out differently in Yliakum.

Appropriate for use in what?

[zanzibar]

I\'ve said this before, but what I\'ve learned about this game is that it is what you make it to be.

The devs can supply a framework and medium, but what happens with it is ultimately up to the individual player.

[Pestilence]

Unless I missed something (apologies), all of your examples involved GMs and not the dev team. You said in a previous post:

hmm so the quests and the history will also be written by the GMs? The devs chose to interact with the players using GMs. The GMs however don\'t really decide what their job is. Policy of the GMs is decided by the dev team as Talad made pretty clear with his new rules. So how can you then say it\'s not an example of actions made by the devteam?

I can\'t seriously make that list, I hope you realize. I suppose taking lists of the updates from the main page would work, but that\'s really incomplete. They\'ve done a ton of things.
 

Well I would say it\'s pretty impossible to make becuase it would be so smal using your own standardsl. GMs you say yourself shouldn\'t be counted and mechanics only proofs they are making a game, but plenty of games build nothing to do with RP so what does this proof to encouraging RP?

So this leaves out updates seeing that is only mechanics and it leaves out GM and Spinner events becuase thats not the devteam according to you and shouldn\'t be counted. That leaves.... wait the history and quests that I already mentioned I felt was lagging behind, how funny

I am trying to make you bash the devs? Don\'t misunderstand the argument or my position. I feel like you\'re pushing for things the team (both dev and GM) aren\'t ready for yet, so I\'m both trying to explain this and try to find out what you\'re arguing for, exactly.

And how is it that the dev team would not be ready for writing deeper stories? You don\'t need more mechanics to post more text on a website. You don\'t need more mechanics to add better text to the quests. You don\'t need more mechnics to look at how races and places came to be where they are before making them.

You might need more and perhaps better writers, but I don\'t believe not a single good writer has offered their services in the last year, nor do I believe that even if it would be so, that it would be that hard to find one just by looking in the fanart section and directing that person a bit on what you want.

[Typhorean]

Okay, pardon me for being blunt, and I know I\'m not forced to read this or anything, but...man.  It was never stated that game mechanics didn\'t help RP, but rather that RP can exist without said game mechanics, and that the devs were doing what they could with mechanics.

Karyuu is trying to figure out what it is you want, being more patient than I certainly would be in her shoes, and you are arguing, arguing, arguing, without ever once stating what you want other than more back story.  Which has nothing to do with the lack of good game mechanics you were originally arguing against, and it has already been stated: the game mechanics aren\'t far enough along to implement what backstory there already was in game; however, it is being worked on.  The crafting system is near completion in this last update, according to the main page, which will hopefully make the economy less of a jumble...just as an example.  I\'d suggest you quick ranting and raving about how horrible it all is, and, if you really want some good backstory and RP, ask the question \'What does Talad want done as far as backstory and such, then?\' instead of saying \'The GMs don\'t make enough events and the dev\'s game mechanics ruin RP\'.  Quit complaining and start doing.  Once you do something, I will have a lot more respect for your...suggestions and so, I\'m sure, will the dev team and the GMs and everyone whose attention you\'re trying to grab.

[Karyuu]

Originally posted by Pestilence
hmm so the quests and the history will also be written by the GMs?

Some NPC quests may be written by GMs. Writing the history is still a dev task, specifically under Talad\'s direction, so I\'m going to let this subtopic go now, as I have no more to do with it. Yes it would be nice if more info was available to players. No I don\'t think that it\'s an enormous tragedy if we don\'t know more at this current stage.

So here is what you want: quests, history. Is that all?

And how is it that the dev team would not be ready for writing deeper stories? You don\'t need more mechanics to post more text on a website. You don\'t need more mechanics to add better text to the quests. You don\'t need more mechnics to look at how races and places came to be where they are before making them.

So this is a lot less serious than I originally thought. The quests (am I repeating myself?) are going to be added and made more intensive. Guess what game mechanics have been added to this latest release to help with that?

*Multi-part and multi-path quests
*Many quest system improvements
*NPC dialogue now uses Wordnet, which will allow for more realistic communication

You might need more and perhaps better writers, but I don\'t believe not a single good writer has offered their services in the last year, nor do I believe that even if it would be so, that it would be that hard to find one just by looking in the fanart section and directing that person a bit on what you want.

Talad isn\'t going to search for people. If people want to apply, they should apply, and he\'ll judge them from then on. I said already that I think I know of only two people who have applied, personally. I don\'t know of any more. If you find that hard to believe, make a thread asking who of those that wrote stories in the RP section applied to the Settings team.

So I guess I really have nothing else to discuss - I\'ve already explained about quests, and I agree with you about more availability of the story and history, which this whole argument now seems to be summarized to.

But you still haven\'t provided any names of old community members that left the game because the devs haven\'t been encouraging enough RP. Why did you skip this point?

[steuben]

Originally posted by Karyuu
Talad isn\'t going to search for people. If people want to apply, they should apply, and he\'ll judge them from then on. I said already that I think I know of only two people who have applied, personally. I don\'t know of any more. If you find that hard to believe, make a thread asking who of those that wrote stories in the RP section applied to the Settings team.

which actually brings up a point. the help us page has little contact info for that. and i can\'t focus enough in irc to bug people, (work related).

[Karyuu]

*runs off to look* :3

Setting Department: BACKGROUND/SETTING Member (We have open positions!)
   
Will create background stories, quests, legends, NPCs and anything related to the setting of PlaneShift.

Skills:
        * Dungeon Master of pen and paper RPGs for 2+ years.
        * Bent for medieval setting.

     To apply, please send this information (any email with missing information will be rejected):
- Full Name, Email, Age, City, State, Country
- Previous experiences on RPGs. Which pen and paper RPG games you played. If you have been DM and for how much time. Which RPG computer games you played.
- Send a writing made by you, or an adventure made by you for pen and paper RPG, or some short and special quest ideas.

Do you mean that there isn\'t enough information on the position, or how to go about submitting an application?

[steuben]

submitting... sorry should have been clearer. the position reqs themselves are fairly clear.

mostly it is the destination e-mail address that is lacking.

[Karyuu]

Ah, alright. I see. Hm.. At the very end of that page:

If you want to help us, please review what we are asking and send us your material, resume, detailed info on your skills as explained above.

That?

[steuben]

/me shrugs.

i was looking for something more specific. mostly because the other teams have it. but if that\'s what is, i\'ll run with it.