PlaneShift website criticism (extensive)

[Kixie]

Originally posted by Karyuu
There were several different \"mineral\" tones available for Kran, as skins, and there will be as well in the future - marble, granite, sandstone, etc.

And don\'t forget the crowd favorite, Rocky Road :3
*rimshot*

[Netty]

Just a quick update with most of the original theme brought back but with improvements and a bit of the grayish on background:

Update 2

However, I know that more editing and work is needed. Plus, I\'m trying to think up of the best way for the top graphic to shrink enough at 800x600 and still look good, and yet be able to expand with higher resolutions, and also, look good.

Not to mention, I have to watch the filesize of the images and perhaps, make compromises on the style, so the dial-up users don\'t scream in agony, while waiting for the page to load.

Speaking of 800x600, it does not fit with the current setup (I mean the default theme here) because the graphic is a bit too long horizontally, so there\'s a horizontal scroll-bar.

It would also be nice to have the original uncompressed images to work with rather than already compressed JPEGs, which contain compression artifacts.

One other thing is I\'ve done a little more research on the Woltlab Burning Board, and it seems this 1.2 version is very old. Woltlab has dropped all support for it and warns of some serious security issues and bugs with it. The latest and popular version is 2.3 series. But I do understand that it costs money and this is a free project, so...

There also doesn\'t seem to be as large a community for WBB as for phpBB. There is a German community but the English one seems to be rather young. However, I\'ve found sites that sell commercial skins for WBB. Surprisingly, many of them aren\'t good.

If this forum was upgraded to 2.3, there\'s a very nice site with various free mods for it at http://www.wbbmods.com. Well, down to 2.0, as far as commercial versions go.

Anyway, I\'ll have to take some time later to think which direction the forum and website colors should go. One of the biggest problems here is that the majority of people can\'t seem to settle on a general direction for the theme. Some will love one, and others won\'t. Even if a good theme is chosen, someone will come and say that they wish that PS logo colors were used in the theme. But then again, is the PS logo really set in stone? Can it not be changed too?

I would at least like one clear answer from some of you - should the brown stay in some form or go? I agree that the current website looks too brown but should we get rid of it completely or try to make it work with other colors, which diffuse excessive \"brownness\"?

The current direction in \"Example 1\" was an attempt to make it compatible with PlaneShift Guide, which adds blue+green to brown (though still too much brown). That and PlaneShift GUI.

Just as an example, if I gave you think link:

Link

And said that this is the theme I picked for PlaneShift (ignore the Warcraft graphic), would you immediately say, \"oh, this is obviously Warcraft\"? That means you consider those colors to be \"WoW\" specific. Or would they work for PlaneShift? Don\'t just say, \"something like that but different\". I want to hear if you strongly believe there are certain theme colors for PlaneShift or if anything goes. If you honestly don\'t have a set theme but are open to anything, then that\'s fine, say that.

So far, there seems to be this notion:

Too much brown isn\'t good - check

Blue is overused - check

Not certain about blue+green color bars (not the graphic but the solid color) - check

Uncertainty about the color that the top graphic fades into - check

When some like the vivid brown and blue+green and others are uncertain, there\'re only two options - to have it or not to have it. \"Something in-between\" already loses the original feeling.

I\'m just trying to find something that majority will like.

Just for a little experiment - if a red color was used, would you immediately consider it to be non-PlaneShifty?

Perhaps then you could list the colors that you think should not be used in the theme?

We need to decide one thing right now, which will be helpful - does pretty much anything go color-wise when it comes to PlaneShift theme or do you believe there is a specific set of colors? If we don\'t decide it now, it\'ll be like poking in the dark. I\'m holding off on doing more detailed graphics touches and effects because there\'s no point, if someone will suddenly say, \"oh, that looks great and I would use it for everything else but it\'s just not PlaneShift colors\". And then they say, \"But I\'m not sure what PlaneShift colors should be\". You get the idea.

So, I need more feedback. Be open and harsh, if you like, towards some colors. Say you hate this color for PS or you hate that. Say something looks dull. I don\'t care if it was in one of my tests. I hate some of them too.

[acraig]

The reason that we\'ve resisted changing the forums is that it is uncertain that we would be able to import all of the current forum data into a new one.   As you said this version of the forums is fairly old and I am not even sure we would be able to easily update to a new version.  Plus we are already familar with this board and it\'s software so moving to new board software only makes additional work for us.  What are the most popular boards that are in use?  I assume it\'s phpBB at this point.   But I don\'t want to switch just because phpBB is something other people are used to.

I will try to see if Talad has any \'official\' colours that he would want to use.  Brown and blue doesn\'t really work well together but since the game is mostly underground I am thinking earth tone colours are the norm.

[Induane]

I ran across this in another forum.  Someone wanted to convert from burning boards 1.2 to phpbb.

This was the solution discovered. It would be easy enough to make a parallel site temporarily to test the database transfer, theme, etc.. and once its all working right, do the final database transfer, and make the switch.

We\'ll be doing something similar with our site when we finish making the switch from phpnuke to mambo.

late, but here it is Wink
Ashe wrote:
Woltlab Burning Board 1.1.1 to phpBB 2.0.x
Version 1.0.0

You will need these two archives to use the converter:

Unified Converter System: convert.zip
wBB 1.1.1 converter file: convert_wbb111.zip

To install it, unzip convert.zip then upload everything to your phpBB2 directory. Upload the converter file in the convert/ directory then go to http://www.yoursite.com/phpBB2/convert/

After you have converted your forum, launch the search re-indexing then destroy your forum when you are sure you won\'t need it anymore. Wink (it will drop all wBB tables)

for wbb 1.2 open \"convert_wbb111.php\", search for
Code:
\"\'test_file\'      =>   \'class_db_zugriff.php\'\"

and change it to
Code:
\'test_file\'      =>   \'admin/class_db_zugriff.php\'

[Netty]

Well, according to WBB site, they supposedly have a guide to a smooth conversion from older versions. You can also post a question on how to convert safely at http://www.wbbmods.com/ and the experts there will help. But your explanation is kind of understandable. I just hope that the security issues that Woltlab speaks of aren\'t going to surface here.

Anyway, up to this point, I tried to adapt a theme that already has some familiarity with existing site and GUI because I thought that\'s what people might\'ve wanted, and just going by suggestions and reactions here. However, I think, perhaps, that I\'m going in an opposite direction from my own advice that I always used in the past for picking colors.

Basically, sometimes a client would insist on specific colors, regardless of my recommendation against them, so in a way, I didn\'t have to worry about a color theme and just made the best of what they picked. Yes, I made pink look good before.

However, in most other times, I used the Color Harmony Theory, combined with my own feeling. The Color Theory has been proven to work in majority of cases, so I think I will try it instead. As much as some people would like to see the current \"logo\" colors somehow combined, some of it may not be in harmony. I will, for now, ignore the logo (since it can be remade) and see what I can come up with by using a color wheel. If anything, it should all be in harmony in the end. I will, of course, try to make it look \"fantasy\".

This may take some time, so don\'t expect an update from me too soon, considering I have other work too but I will take a serious look at what may work well, especially with existing PlaneShift 3D renders.

By the way, for anyone curious what I\'m talking about with the Color Theory, here\'s an excellent article on it:

Color Theory

A little quote from that article:

==========Colour Theory

The use of colour plays an important part with audiences. People are able to identify colour more than any of the other 3 layout attributes I have acknowledged. It\'s due to the fact colour has a basic law of magnetism with it. Either the viewer is attracted to the colours or they are repelled to them. Some people are unable to comprehend why they like a site consisting of colours outside of their favorite colours spectrum yet they just know they like it. This is similar to that of magnets. You can\'t quite ?see? why a north-pole facing magnet repels another north-pole facing magnet and why a north-pole facing magnet attracts a south-pole facing magnet but you observe that it does and you accept it. Taking this idea of attractive/repellent colours, I can now move onto colour theory.

Balancing colours can be difficult to achieve. Balancing colours while maintaining a purpose in your selection can also be quite perplexing when devising a scheme. I often pick colours depending on my mood, what I am experiencing at that moment in time and so fourth. This is taken on an artistic idea that it\'s possible to have a painting of different sized and different coloured circles, reflect your personality and character. Colours can say an awful lot about your character and I enforce this with every piece of work I produce. Like the clich?d saying goes, \"Actions speak louder than words\". The action in the example of a layout is the colour choice and the words refer to the content obviously. All of that aside, it\'s important to have a basic understanding of colours and how they can work together effectively.

This is what I usually based my choices on in the past.

By the way, if there\'s a secret location to download uncompressed original images of 3D renders and other non-posted artwork, which could be anything from a concept art to old PlaneShift MUD promotional graphics, feel free to send me a PM with the location to such a download. But if it\'s not available unless one is on a team, that is fine, I understand. I will try to make do with what I can find on my own, plus possibly my own additions.

I will, however, try to utilize as much of an already done work for PS as I can, just to show that there is, indeed, a wealth of resources, and it\'s just a matter of utilizing them properly.

I\'ll post an update whenever I have something new. But if you have anything to add, feel free.

[AryHann]

I think the color matching is definetely fine - I like the style and the \"connection\" with PS GUI.

It is not SCI-fi, still it is really \"fantasy medieval\" and the idea of using the same icons, just makes things better, imho.

[Netty]

All right, if people would like to keep the PS GUI feel, I\'ll try to go for that. Perhaps, part of the problem with forum colors is the way main website looks, so maybe I\'ll concentrate on that instead. Besides, it looks like the forum may be changed to phpBB in the future, so it\'ll be easier to adopt the website for that later than have to redo wBB skin.

[acraig]

I hear that phpBB is very frequently hacked unless it\'s constantly kept up to date.  Anybody have any first hand knowledge of this? In this case a less known board may be safer ( though that safety is an illusion really )

[Bereror]

Yes it is frequently hacked. However, I haven\'t seen any more updates since the version 2.0.19 came out in December 2005.

The nice thing is that the update process was easy and fully automated, no data was lost in the database and the administrator panel checks for new versions every time I go onto it.

[Nikodemus]

Because Nettys design is png format, so no resizing and looking how does it behalve, I have made simple example

http://www.freepgs.com/crimsonorder/things/elasticforum/elastic.html

I don\'t know if you have similiar version, but I also wanted to learn something and give some ideas to Acraig.
I hope I helped

It\'s elastic
Everything is made in css
The logo is shorter, but you won\'t see where it ends in case of very wide resolution because i have added proper background color
But it is only example and i think the right border scale because of some weird reason...

I also do agree phpBB isn\'t good choice. I think it has less common user options than other forums. I don\'t think so we can browse these forums in various skins without logging in, for example.
And it\'s of course less secure than other boards because it\'s so popular.

[Netty]

Niko,

The forum example is GREAT! Love how the font looks on top and bottom of the \"bar\". Of course, it doesn\'t validate yet and needs more code tweaks but I\'m sure you just quickly made a rough test.

I\'m currently working on the PS website for a change (was a bit sick of forum), and I already have some great ideas. I\'m incorporating the GUI feel. I\'m in that inspired mood right now *knocks on wood* and don\'t want to lose the momentum. But your test with my example arrangement looks great so far. Keep it up. This is what\'s great about it - more than a single person working on it and testing things.

[acraig]

Ok, if people have forum software that they would like to see please send me a message about it.  No promises or anything, just looking at different options.

[Netty]

Well, as far as phpBB goes, it is an older software and there\'s a huge community but also more vulnerabilities, as it was mentioned. However, many of them do get fixed, even if not as fast as in commercial forum software. Also, it does take quite a bit of tweaking to get phpBB to where you want it, unlike with some commercial forum software. On the other hand, if you keep using WBB 1.2 and not upgrade, the existing vulnerabilities will always be present.

Theoretically, no forum software is completely secure, there have been security issues in every commercial forum version at some point. So, you always need to update. Are you guys prepared to keep on buying newer versions of a commercial software to get the latest fixes?

Speaking of phpBB, those guys that want a free forum software but have gotten disappointed by phpBB, usually swear by SMF. It\'s pretty young, and its community is young too but people seem to like it a lot.

Out of commercial ones, vBulletin seems to be leading but it is also the most expensive. Cheaper (not cheap) but pretty much as popular is IPB.

Actually, Woltlab Burning Board is pretty good, if you\'re willing to upgrade to the latest versions. Plus, you guys are used to it already. The old 1.2 version that you guys are using definitely has security issues. There were even security issues in earlier 2.x versions but they supposedly fixed them. The latest one is 2.3, and the price seems ok.

You can see the user and admin demos here.

But take a look at SMF and see if you like it first.

[Nikodemus]

I have fixed the site. I do realize that the forum tables design is dfferent that the one i made, but it was the best i could.
link to fixed example
Now it scales as it should in firefox as i used the \"float:\" ( IE was reading the table corectly whatsuprised me , but it doesnt matter anymore)
Opera reads it same as Firefox does now.
IE can\'t read css correctly (nothing new). It doesn\'t read    \"border-spacing: 0px;\"

[Netty]

Yep, this one is better with alignment.

I still like the top graphic, at least the two-render merger (and will probably use it for the website as well), simply because those are the highest quality of all publically available PlaneShift renders I could find. Others have a Kran that looks like he\'s made of clay. The Dermorian female render looks ok but it\'s based on an old and early in-game model, which will most likely look different in the newer releases.

I wish the PlaneShift wallpaper had a version without the \"spider\" following Kran and Fenki.

Who worked on the 3D renders anyway? Is that person still around? Do they have the lossless originals? Just curious.