An appeal to the guild heads and heroes of Yliakum

[Xillix Queen of Fools]

Alot of you seem to be missing the point somewhat, I am asking for money, and I am also willing to scale back my rewards massively. I asked for help, construtive critiscism, I have no intention of taking more than one player\'s [or a guild\'s] responsibility for an instability in the economy.

One thing not being adressed is my desire to help the new players I have trained into some of the guilds, I have had some great successes in this realm and wish to broaden this outreach to many more guilds. It alleviates some of the strain on my guild to answer every question the new player has. I ask a player after having made them read the history of Yliakum how they imagine themselves, as a ranger a thief a preist a wizard good or evil and try to then send them toward like-minded people. There have been many success stories in this fashion.

I am sure I can count on Isra to aid me in scaling this back to a more reasonable degree. I am currently working on my system to make my guild more financially solvent. The mining thing will help and when crafting is more broadly implemented that will help more.

If you must hold your tria close do that, I try to help the poor, my appeal is to the wealthy.

[Peacer]

@Zan: THe idea of sending them together or improoving community is a good idea. They should ask some other players to point them in the right direction etc.

@Easton: I don\'t have the full amount of what full armor and full glyphs and weapons take of tria at the moment But i think the money for that and 500-1000 would be a fine amount for new players to get started. They get the armory of borallis known and the first step to explore. I didn\'t know of borallis before i overheard it at xillix *embarrased* even theough you didn\'t say this (heck why did i tell it and don\'t edit my post and not write something else >.<.) More to this later

@Makita: I don\'t think that the lack of evil roleplayers is becuase of this. The lack of bad rp\'ers come from people becuase it\'s hard to roleplay evil if you haven\'t tried it before. So they start out with a good-aligned character. Maybe they will take the challenge up later on

@Syilph: A nice point of view. I See VoL as the people who give away stuff that the game mechanics should. You should start out with something like a couple of trias, maybe a weapon, and some glyphs. Maybe this should be explained to them, and the fact about roleplaying (which made my training slow down A LOT.) But your idea about showing them the world is a good idea to. Maybe they should show some typical rp situations maybe at the tavern. Maybe at harnquist, etc. Maybe setting something up (you know you can count on me xillix .)

[Xillix Queen of Fools]

Originally posted by makita
Xilix,
     I want you to know that what you are doing, is ruining the Rp-value of the game. I\'m not just saying this, i\'m argumeting below.

I take that as Inflamatory and I am insulted.

Originally posted by makita One problem is that you help new players, ok i can agree to that, but you claim you teach them how to roleplay, which you don\'t.
      you teach them your ideea of roleplay, wich really isn\'t adequate for the current state yliakum is in, for there is the problem, most [90%] people that learn roleplay from you will orient their character towards good-alligments, and that is a problem

This is not a problem I created perhaps look at the many posts about the \"problem of evil\" [<--look I made a funny] as it exists in ps. Or Sangwa and other people\'s issues with the lack of real incentive to try to role play evil in Yliakum. I do everything I can to send people where they ought go in the spectrum of good and evil. This thread contains within it my intention to further that goal. Of course I teach them my idea of roleplaying, what little bit of it I can in the short span of time I have with a new player, yes I do. I did not claim to teach them role playing I claimed to get them off the ground and going in the right direction, be it good, evil theiving, or law abiding. I have been playing rpgs for 16 years and held staring roles in plays- I know what I am doing and I have spent a good bit of energy trying to learn how things work in ps to further role playing in Yliakum.

     

Originally posted by makita I have completed a study and have found out that over 90% of all active RP-ers in planeshift are good alligned and with more good people coming from your direction the number is increasing

A study? So you gathered data? Interviewed people? did you have control groups? I am aware that there are more good aligned folks as I am sure everyone is. What I take issue with here is your assumption that I turn out more good than evil, or that people are \"coming from\" my \"direction\" toward one or another alignment. Your statements are inaccurate.

     

Originally posted by makita My point is that for a RP-world to trully be rp, a certain ballance needs to be kept, meaning the number of good alligned players should be equal [or almost] with the number of evil alliged players,

Is this not YOUR idea of role play? We all have our own and are entitled to have it, I commend you here.

 

Originally posted by makita
otherwise, the whole game purpose will fall to what it is now:
bashing the skull of that rogue ro gladiator or mercenary 24/7
i am playing this game for 5 months now and my skills are as follows:
14-sword
15-light armour
11-melee
i hit for about 50 damage
i\'m seeing players that have started under you tutelage that hit for 200-250 damage and have only started a week ago

Perhaps you are not particularly efficient at training? I do not know. I can speak for my guild members the do well because they have decent weapons.

and below, following from the above quote is your fabulous non sequitur-


     

Originally posted by makita And i believe that that\'s why this happens, because of the shortage of evil-alligned players, if more evil alligned players would be available, then the ballance would start shaping, would start taking form, and then, mostly because of conflict, the game would become a lot more entertaining.
     And as for the economy crisis you are creating, you really give far too much trias for rewards, i mean what\'s the point of stealing if i can get far too much from you just for completing one of you insignificant quests.
     As for a finallization for this message, i would like to stress some more on the ballance issue, for a any world to  work, real or virtual, the ballance of alligments must be kept, the good ones and the evil ones must cancel each other out, and the neutral ones should allways shift just to preserve the neutrality.
     I have stated my point, i would see what that has earned not me, but the entire planeshift community
                                                                   Makita

to quote NWA, \"If you fail to see, read it in braille it\'ll still be funky\"

[lol, if someone will pm me how to make the quotes display properly i will clean this]

*edit*

@Syilph:

Just a few things.

one

I am pretty sure I have aided player retention.

two

I do make them do a lot, and as per everyone\'s arguments they will be doing a great deal more to earn their way with me.

three

Plans are [and were before now] in the works to do Yliakum tours as part of my quest system.

Generally, I will take this advice to heart as I will take Makita\'s and Easton\'s and Proglin\'s and Isra\'s and anyone else who replies.

Please avoid posting two or more successive posts before others have replied. Just edit your last post to add new information :) To end quotes, put a [/QUOTE] tag. --Karyuu[/size]

[Anfa]

Originally posted by Syilph
 I used to do that too a long time ago but i found out that none of the ones i \"helped\" ever returned to play the game after a week.

I, on the other hand, have had the opposite happen. Weeks even months later I have had players come up to me whom I don\'t remember...but who remember me.  They just wanted to say \"thank you\" for the advice I offered and the  trias I gifted to help them get started.

Same game...different experiences..

Perhaps it was something other than trias that caused the people to leave? Some find the game to lacking in options being that it is not yet fully developed and go off looking for a more exciting and complete game to play. Or some just find a game that is mostly rping is not what they are looking for.

But then, we can only speculate on their reasons since they are gone..

Let the Scions know how we can help Xillix...I have met all the npc\'s in Hydlaa and Ojaveda and know their individual jobs. This knowledge is at your disposal. My favorite is the prison executioner, all though the doomsayer is fun...lol

Cheers
Anfa

[Syilph]

Some points in favour of offering guided tours to newcomers:
1: Knowledge of the world is more important than any amount of money or training. For example, as a newbie it took me ALOT of time to get to a confortable level of training. That was important because I RP a warrior and that requires a certain skill with weappons. After the wipe, it took me a month to get my skills to the level i wanted. Why? Because I knew where to go and what to do to get money and PP.
2: By taking newbies on a tour you show them the world, and trust me, many will be charmed by the beauty of it.
3: You RP along the way, you tell them storyes about the places you take them to and by doing so, you will introduce them to RP and that is a great achievment.
4: You get to know them as they get to know you and, in result, you can make a new friend with each tour you take.
5: It is fun! For you and for them, it will chase boredom away and give you the chance to help somebody and to have fun alltogether.

Edit:

Originally posted by Anfa
I, on the other hand, have had the opposite happen. Weeks even months later I have had players come up to me whom I don\'t remember...but who remember me. They just wanted to say \"thank you\" for the advice I offered and the trias I gifted to help them get started.

I\'m not saying that they will leave if you give them money. All I\'m saying is that by doing so you don\'t help somebody that much. Give them a small quest (and i\'m not talking about a \"go and bring me 10 rat tails\" quest because farming quests aren\'t quests actually) and you\'ll see that they will be happyer when they get something as a reward than when they get something for free. Also, by just giving them some money and leting them be on they\'re way you aren\'t helping them because they will spend the money on crap (pardon the word). I would emphasise the word \"advice\" in your phrase. Now that helps! Also, now it is preety easy to do something like \"Here, take 50k trias and go buy yourself some decent stuff\", and that is because of the huge amount of money that some players have. We all know how we got that much money... But think about this proble in the context of the economy before the wipe... Back then 2000 trias were an insane amount of money and you had to \"work\" 2 days (if you were lucky) to get that much money. Now, imagine that you work that hard and then you give the money to a newbie to help him. The next day, the guy deletes PS and never returns... Now... wasn\'t that a perfect waste of your time? Did you had fun doing it? Nope, i guess not. So all i\'m trying to point out is that you can help somebody another way and have fun at the same time. I\'m not saying all this to criticise somebody. The world is full of critics. I hope my intention will be seen as is, meanning as constructive criticism.
Xillix had a good ideea imo and I think that if she \"polishes\" that alitle things will go well.

[Xillix Queen of Fools]

I just want to interject that I am willing to learn and change and grow with the advice given, please keep it coming and try to keep the tone upbeat, I am a tad sensitive, and have seen some posts get out of hand quickly.

I posted because I wanted this advice, and I honestly thank those who have been and are commited to being constuctive in their posts. I am trying to BUILD something, I have some people power behind me to make this work. I would like a workable system that makes everyone happy. That is an impossibility, perhaps a more realistic goal is a system that does not make anyone markedly unhappy, if this too proves impossible--

I am going Frank Sinatra on your crazy asses-

This thread is not just an alms cup, if your guild is recruiting please contact me in game and in character to discuss the type of person you are looking for and how you would like me to screen candidates. In this way the guildheads might share the burden of training new people.

[Aradia]

First of all I just want to point out that I think you, Xillix, are doing a great job so far.

Second, I have a few questions.

You say you are trying to BUILD something, but what are you trying to build? Are you creating a charity? A school? A guild of priests devoted to Laanx? A combination of these things? Maybe if you could share a general idea about WHAT the Vespers of Lannx will be, people just might understand a bit more, and not flame you as much.

And this goes out to Makita. You say she is ruining RP by forcing her idea of it upon the new people. Do you really expect a priestess that is good-aligned to encourage people to join an evil guild, become a thief, or anything of that sort? I dont. And so what if they hit for large amounts of damage? It\'s just numbers. Numbers mean nothing in actual RP.

You know I share your opinion of how PS needs more \"evil\", but to blame Xillix for ruining the RP of the game as a whole is just a low blow. She\'s the one that deals with all of the \"annoying n00bs\" that always get on your nerves. Give her some credit.

*hands Xillix a shiny Tria* :-D

[Einnol]

In my humble opinion, I see Xillix and the Vespers of Laanx as providing a much needed service.  They continue to help a lot of people get settled in and acclimated to PS.  There are many great people in this community that are always willing to help new players, but she (and the rest of her guild) actively seek them out.  Many times I have witnessed them devote a lot of time patiently helping new players take their first steps in Yliakum.  I think it is a good idea to explain the basics of RP to new players as early on as possible.  Habits are easier to form than they are to break.  The difference between OOC and IC communication is often a foreign concept to a new player.  This basic knowledge alone helps them to recognize the difference when they encounter it with others that they meet.

Xillix, I don\'t know many details of the quests and tasks that you already assign, but it is good to see that you are looking for ways to improve upon them.  There have already been so many good ideas here, it is hard to think of something new.  The rewards should definitely be kept small and centered more around teaching them to fish rather than giving them a fish (once fishing is implemented, that is.   )  For example:  Maybe give them a sack and tell them to find someone who desperately needs it.    This would encourage them to explore and interact with others and give just the slightest start for someone who does not wish to RP a fighter.  I don\'t see a need for any reward to be any greater than a circle or a basic sword and even then only after they have proven that they can also support themselves, so to speak.  I agree that someone does not need to be given a full set of armor and 2 mid-range swords their first 5 minutes in Yliakum, nor do I think that is your intention either.

Once they get a little comfortable with basics, maybe suggest that they seek out some mining contract work with Hydlaa Mining Company or check the Yliakum Job Agency for listings.  Maybe have them pick 5 guilds of their choice and find out a little about each of those guilds.  That may help them to think in terms of finding a guild that suits them instead of expecting it to work the other way or just blindly joining the first guild that asks them.

I think the key is finding creative ways of doing more with less.  I am sure many non-profit organizatons are familiar with this concept.  Perhaps they should give you a promise to pay back you back double once they they are making their own way.  Then, those funds get put back.  If one out of each two adheres to their word, you still break even.

It is a work in progress and like many of the good player-initiated activities, guilds and organizations lately, it will get even better by having constructive suggestions for improvement.

Don\'t get discouraged and keep up the good work.

[Xillix Queen of Fools]

@Aradia, more to follow in short order I am diligently working with the aid of many to post to the guild forum on whom and what the Vespers of Laanx Propose to be both in RP terms, and as relates to the matters contained in this thread.

Everyone please be be patient with me on this question as I am not ready to answer this question elaborately enough to satisfy the guidelines posted to the guild forum.

I promise more very soon.

By BUILD something in this context I refer only to building a system of quests that is fairer, more balanced, engaging, and elaborate, that might actually give back to the church and building relations with the heads of guilds to spread the responsibility for aiding new players among those guilds willing to aid me.

@Einnol Thank you for your thoughts.

[Farren Kutter]

Okay, I read more than half the posts before remembering i have chores and work to do, so I only know half of the arguments. I\'ll cover a few if I can.

I believe what Xillix is doing is great, though I\'m sure it could be tweaked a little to make it more beneficial to the new players. They get the money to go buy the stuff... What does that teach them? It teaches them how to buy stuff, correct? Now, what if they were given the exact amount of money needed for the items, and then, after buying the items, had to give the items to one of the VoL members? Then they would have nothing they didn\'t start with aside from the experience in buying.

Xillix has the new members taught to RP, and a member I was recently sent for my guild was already using the brackets to speak OOC, It was great, and after my little test, plus what she told me about herself (IC), she will do well in my guild. I myself gave Xillix all of my money as soon as I heard about this (so now I\'m broke, but also with a new member, and 18k is well worth a better community anyway, not to mention a nice new member, spirited and able to play the game).

For some people, the system will not work, but I think it works fine, maybe a few tweaks needed. For everything they are given, the money to buy stuff, etc., something should be paid back worth what they were given. It would be like a loan, they are given money, they are expected to pay it back somehow. They are given money, they get the armor, give it to the VoL, they are given a weapon, they should go and kill a certain amount of rats and get a certain amount of certain items... If it is already like this, Xillix, please forgive my lack of knowledge. Now, I\'d say mroe, but I have stuff to do.

[Cyl]

I have to say that this is a top notch initiative, from Xillix\'s side. My only suggestion is to get yourself knit even tighter to the community of guilds, providing your prot?g? with something to do instantly after getting your help. Investing into this movement would actually lead to a great win-win scenario. The guilds not only get valuable (RP and stat-wise) members, but a great percentage of the clueless newbies would stop being clueless (as well as being newbies).

My only advice: Try to get a bit more involved with the various guilds and organisations.

[Zan]

One extra piece of advice, avoid having mining characters called \"Diggah\" in your guild that totally obliterate all roleplaying purposes. Characters like that tend to drag your credibility down when it comes to advertizing roleplay.

P.S.: This is honest advice, not any type of attack on your initiative.

[Easton]

I just want to clarify again..

I do like the idea, and i agree with Cyl. This is a great idea and it should be organized and publicized so as many people/guilds that want to be a part of it, can. My only concern was about the effects to the economy. Otherwise, my support is with you, and i would be interested to see how things get refined and organized.

For some reason i felt i needed to clarify.

Easton Ghent

[kiwisol]

Greetings to All, [Nuria Azula here]

As a complete newbie (no mmorpg previously) I\'m keen to explore and do quests, but simply managing the interface and talking to the npc\'s is an enormous learning curve. I had some highly frustrating times (and continue to do so) trying to communicate and find my way. If this frustration had continued I may well have quit out as so many others have, however....

I was introduced to Xillix - and the veil began to be lifted. Xillix placed me in the care of Leament who gave me a number of tiras, and instructed me to find the armorer and the magic shop and purchase the items available. She gave me the tools to begin my journey of discovery in this world with enough coinage to make mistakes, help others and feed myself! She also very paitently taught me the way out of the Death Relm.  I met with Diggah in the Deathrealm and asked him about getting progression and experience points as I had none - and he told me about the rogue in the forest and gave me advice on what I should spent those points on.  Diggah was a great help and I\'ll not hear his name used in vain!

Xillix, Leament and the Vespers fill a great need for the infant citizens of Yliakum, and for some of the attitudes expressed here it\'s no wonder there are so many infant deaths! I\'ve overheard a number of derogatory descriptions of new people as I\'ve ventured around the place, so clearly we are considered a pain in the b***. Xillix and the Vespers are turning newfolk into competant players - who haven\'t lost sight of how daunting the task of learning this new world is for a beginner. I would have thought you newbie haters would appreciate this

There may be room for improvement, and different ways of doing things, but The Vespers have my deep appreciation for their timely and sensible assistance.  When I am more able - I will certainly offer financial assistance to their cause. (Nuria smiles Courteously and bows to Xillix)

I hope to become a proficient citizen of this land - but will not be able to do so without the assistance of the older and wiser members.

My Sincere thanks for all of you who have helped me -Nuria Azula- Your actions remain foremost in my mind - and you are Honoured .

[Farren Kutter]

Yay, a primary source for the effects that Xillix\'s program has :D:D