desperate plead for a money wipe

[zanzibar]

As usual, people are overreacting.



6,000 per platinum ore is a lot, but there\'s a lot that goes into that:

- mining skill
- knowing where to mine for gold, iron, and platinum
- doing the necessary quests
- doing the necessary leg work
- putting the time into getting the platinum

What you get in return:

- trias
- mining skill


Now, compare that to fighting in the arena.  You can get what?  20,000 trias in under an hour or so, if you\'re covering multiple spawns?  I haven\'t kept track of how much money I make with my character, so I\'m not sure what the exact figures are.  I do know this, however:

- it requires skill in light armour and a weapon
- a possible cost is health potions

What you get in return:

- a lot of money
- good weapons which you can sell to other players or use yourself
- training and experience in combat skills



I think that mining and fighting for money is relatively ballanced.  With mining, you might make more money but you don\'t become a better fighter as a result, nor do you get a chance at looting powerful weapons.  A silverweave weapon can sell for anywhere from 100,000 trias to a million.



As far as the wipe goes, I agree that to test game ballance you need to start from scratch and see how things play out after a few weeks.  However, my personal experience is not ruined because other people have more trias and higher skill levels.  Really, it barely affects me at all.

As far as people leaving because of wipes, I don\'t think this is the case.  People come and go all the time, even regulars.  As starting up new characters is fun, especially since it gives you \"permission\" to try a new approach to your character.

[Waylander]

Oh no, I believe you misunderstood.  I was saying that if it had happened three times in that past few months they may leave.  I doubt any will leave because of one wipe.

And you raise a good point.  One thing I would like to point out is that only so many people can be fighting in the arena at one time whereas there is no limit to how many can be mining.  Gives mining an edge because you can always mine.

Either way, I agree it is mostly balanced

[Karyuu]

Originally posted by Waylander
The Devs have become more hesitant to do wipes because a lot of the community has spoken up against them.

That\'s ridiculous :) Where do you get your information? We do wipes when necessary, not because we feel like it. If it needs doing, it will be done regardless of who or how many complain.

[Waylander]

Meh, it\'s not information, it\'s common sense.  If the Devs really didn\'t care about players complaining about wipes there would have been tons before now.

The devs wouldn\'t be human if they weren\'t influenced by other peoples opinions.

And it would be ridiculous to believe they ignored all complaints completely.  It may not cause them to delay a planned wipe but it would make them think twice about having on.

[DaveG]

Player whining has nothing to do with anything here.  We\'ll wipe after the new things messing things up are fixed.  New ones just keep popping up, and we never got around to it.    Hopefully we\'ll get all these things fixed sometime soon so we can get this wipe done, and fix the issues caused by the leftover junk in the DB.

[Waylander]

Eh, I\'m happy, I got away with a bold and italic ridiculous.  I still believe that it would affect them, just not officialy or noticably

I can even point out that there was that time when somebody wanted to ban all AOL people.  That never happened and I am guessing it was because of the AOL using PSers

[zorbels]

I also notice alot of the \"whining\" we are talking about comes from the newbies. Once you experiance more than a few wipes and some big changes, the \"Regulars\" as I like to call them enjoy the new changes to be had in planeshift. Where as the newbies complain because they just don\'t know any better. They do not realise that its actually refreashing to have .....  

As for the trias ... not all characters that have a mass amounts of trias just sit on it. It is creating great roleplaying. For example I have seen people pay others well to go and pick up potions from the arena and bring it back to the person who hired them. This provides an income for the newbies so it isn\'t all about hack and slash. It is providing roleplay. It also makes auction time with /10 weapons fun too. The newbies cannot afford to go head to head with the ones who have the trias and I am personally grateful that is the case. It isn\'t realistic for a newbie to be able to buy such a fine sword. Though it would be darn exciting to be a newbie and loot one. Then there would be a desision for the newbie to make. Do I sell the sword and become rich or do I keep it for myself? There are lots of ways to look at this in a positive light and we all know the wipe is coming sooner or later. So make the best of it ....

[Easton]

I made a large post in another thread about this issue. There does need to be a wipe. I\'ve been through my share of them, i really don\'t mind at all.

However...

Of course, i think it would be a huge waste if we wiped anything without fixing as many of the current bugs as possible. I think the Devs will work out the best prices for everything, and the best amount of loot, xp per hunt etc.. They\'ve dealt with this stuff before. For example... when the   uber weapons were implemented, instantly everyone was in the arena getting their huge loots and making their millions. It was chaotic, distracting, and a bit distasteful, but eventually, it was resolved with the weapon wipe.

My point is, don\'t let it ruin your experience. Don\'t participate in the rush if you don\'t want to [I tried it out, as it is my duty as a tester ] but a large amount of people are. Some for the trias, others for the experience so when other forms of crafting are implemented they will have the knowledge needed. But don\'t let it completely affect your experience. Spend the next while in the tavern if you must.. I\'ll be there..

Easton

[zanzibar]

Originally posted by Easton
For example... when the   uber weapons were implemented, instantly everyone was in the arena getting their huge loots and making their millions. It was chaotic, distracting, and a bit distasteful, but eventually, it was resolved with the weapon wipe.

That\'s not the way it happened at all!

First, the mercenary was the only one that dropped the new weapons, and it only dropped axes.  There were usually six to eight people there.  The problems started happening when a group of five players decided to band together and prevent anyone else from attacking the mercenary.  Game Masters were called in numerous times, and eventually they were stopped.

But not everyone was in the arena, and it wasn\'t chaotic or distracting.  And the weapon wipe wasn\'t for those weapons.

Then they had fire broadswords added to the game, then the rest followed, and things were interesting for a while.  Such weapons sold for 20,000 trias each, then 15, then 10, then 8, and it kept going down.

Then there was the gold falchion bug with rats, and people made a lot of money at that point.  I think that was when the big character wipe happened, but I could be mistaken.

The inventory wipe happened much later because of a bugged quest which gave a weapon with a insanely high slash.  I\'ve been told that the slash was upwards of one million, but I never took advantage of the exploit so I don\'t know from personal experience.  They didn\'t wipe trias however because they didn\'t want to punish characters that didn\'t exploit the bug.  The did not wipe inventories just to get rid of fire, dark, and frosty weapons however.

[neko kyouran]

Originally posted by zanzibar
Then there was the gold falchion bug with rats, and people made a lot of money at that point.  I think that was when the big character wipe happened, but I could be mistaken.

I started playing, well created my account, one day after the big character wipe happened.  When the server came up a few days later, thats when I was able to actually start playing.  First thing I decided to kill wasa rat and it gave me 2 goldies.  So yes, you are right.

And even though it has been said already, wipes without a reason are pointless and the devs know this.  There won\'t be a wipe unless the devs fix the issue the wipe is for, and then they will wipe to start afresh and see how their changes work out.  Thats whole reason behind  a wipe, the devs change something dramatic, and to see how the game plays out under the new rules, they wipe to get rid all of things related to the old so it doesn\'t interfere with seeing how the new changes will effect the game.

While some may argue that there is a need for ulber characters for testing those things at higher levels. Yes I agree, but an ulber character gained through the old way before the changes made during the wipe due to the old rules, does not work when testing the new changes.  The only true way to truely test the changes is to regain those stats under the new system. Hence, when major rule changes happen, a full wipe takes place. If thats a change to the leveling system of characters, then its a character wipe, if its to the loot given, then its a item wipe, etc, etc.  At least, thats how I always looked at what wiping was all about.

[DaveG]

Originally posted by Waylander
I can even point out that there was that time when somebody wanted to ban all AOL people.  That never happened and I am guessing it was because of the AOL using PSers

... um... no.  Actually, it was quite the opposite.

You probably overheard Cadoras\' dumb joke he keeps going on about.  A while ago, I created a new ban system which uses host masks (similar to the system IRC uses).  I discovered that AOL has a fairly crappy host name system, and everyone is on the same host mask.  Thus, a ban to one banned all.  It was worked around, though we\'re not using this exact system anymore due to a flaw in the c++ host name fetching code that isn\'t worth working around in a primarily UDP application.  Anyways, that\'s all besides the point.  A remark was made something to the effect of \"who cares? we might as well just ban them all\".    Cadoras still tends to greet me as \"still trying to ban AOL users?\".  It\'s getting old now, but he still keeps it up.  

[Waylander]

And I...he always will!

*runs away and hides*

[Zan]

Sorry for the lil rant, was just a bit bummed about losing my originality.

Thanks for the idea though Kary ... gold rush it is!

[Zelfuro Mirageon]

I understand this is an ALPHA, and there will eventually be a wipe, and that is fine. I just think it stinks that after developing a character and putting a lot of time and effort into developing the story behind them (characters story changes and developes as its skills do), it gets set back to ground zero. I dont mind the money or the weapons, but when you put time in to developing an RPG character for over a year and a half and its whole skill set gets reset it stinks. I always liked best helping other characters develop their characters and help them to do stuff they cant do when they are new, you can build a lot of good RPG friendships that way. I know I have and have been helped a lot as well. It\'s not as if there is really a PVP faction where a lvl8 has to defend off a lvl15 or such, there really isn\'t any PVP at all unles you want it to. I know lots of RPG\'s where people were hoodwinked by another lower level person only to be mugged by a group and lost all of their stuff, which is one of the reasons I liked PlaneShift because it relied almost totally on an RPG environment. Anyway, in closing the people who say it doesn\'t matter about skill level or think there should be a wipe, should worry more about themselves than what somewhat else has or is. I understand some of these things happened because or exploits or errors, what game doesnt have errors, and I understand they need to be corrected. To me it does matter when I work to develop a characters identity and it does get wiped back to nothing.


/end rant

[Xordan]

Originally posted by Waylander
Meh, it\'s not information, it\'s common sense.  If the Devs really didn\'t care about players complaining about wipes there would have been tons before now.

The devs wouldn\'t be human if they weren\'t influenced by other peoples opinions.

And it would be ridiculous to believe they ignored all complaints completely.  It may not cause them to delay a planned wipe but it would make them think twice about having on.

pfft, just be glad I don\'t have database access >:|


And we\'ve told people about 100000 times that we\'ll probably wipe things like skills/stats in future, so I don\'t see that people can really complain. :P