Author Topic: Dwarfslaying - a happy pastime ?  (Read 2802 times)

DaveG

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« Reply #15 on: April 22, 2006, 07:27:10 pm »
  • Racism is not included within the normal game universe, as already dictated by the setting.  It is already assumed that most people of a race have others from other races in their family tree.  All races are capable of interbreeding (there\'s only one species here) and the resulting offspring is of one of the parents\' races.
  • Having an ignorant character is very different from having one who wants to commit geneocide on a particular race.  It\'s not the kind of thing someone just \"decides\" to do if they\'re a decent person.  I\'m inclined to belive that anyone who would think this is a good idea is at least a little racist.  (I would argue that most people are...)  If you want to have an evil character, that\'s fine, just don\'t go focusing on races like this.
  • Do not drag this garbage into PlaneShift.  I couldn\'t care less about debates over wether it can be done \"right\" or if it\'s \"real\".  I don\'t want to see this here at all.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2006, 07:31:55 pm by DaveG »

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zorbels

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« Reply #16 on: April 22, 2006, 07:41:35 pm »
I do not have a problem with Drahlian\'s guild for the same reasons as ou8i8uo expressed. She and her guild are very good about everything and are polite <~~ For lack of a better word. They provide roleplay for all of us something planeshift needs. A story line. I have never seen Drahlian take it to far and say rude thing to people .... and she is slaying  fictional characters not real pleople. DWARFS ARE NOT REAL. (I am not talking about people dwarfs in real life either. :/) She has stood beside me in game and has had a converstation with me as my dwarf friends stand around me. She did not go out of her way to even address them and begin trouble. I however won\'t name names ... but stood in the plaza very annoyed one night trying to have a roleplay while a bunch of players we shouting out insults to Drahlian and her guild. They shouted enough that I could scroll three times with my mouse in my chat box. They were being rude and picking on her.  She took it as she always does. I could be picky and will be and say that is a form of racism as well.

This is a make belief world people so lets just not get the panties in a knot, I think we should look at fixing racism in RL before we start looking in a game. Lets face it, I come to the game to get away from real life issues. I don\'t appreciate it bring brought in.
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zanzibar

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« Reply #17 on: April 22, 2006, 07:51:22 pm »
It\'s not being RPed well and it should stop.  It was a lousy idea to begin with.
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Drahlian

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Drahlian and Dwarvesbane
« Reply #18 on: April 22, 2006, 08:10:10 pm »
[OOC:

First of all, I\'d like to thank everyone for their thoughts on Drahlian and her guild. My purpose for \"Dwarfslayer\" and \"Dwarvesbane\" is ultimately to make the world of Yliakum a more interesting place. Killing ulbernauts and rogues, selling the loot, and doing a few scripted quests can get monotonous.

A few people, such as Proglin, work hard to add RP spice to the game, setting up events and such. I appreciate their efforts, and think it adds enjoyment for most.

Drahlian is evil, no doubt about that, but I think evil is required to make good drama. What would Star Wars be without Darth Vader, or Lord of the Rings without Sauron?

Drahlian has had around 40 in-character duels with other players. With the exception of one mistake on my part (which I have long since made ammends for), all slayings have been battles agreed upon by both parties. Drahlian stays away from newbies.

The majority of my friends are dwarves, though Drahlian won\'t admit it. She often practices dueling in the DR with other dwarves (she\'s very nice to dwarves in the DR, as she wishes all dwarves to be dead, and in the DR they *are* dead). A few small RP events have been set up, and I believe enjoyed by all present.

DaveG, I am *not* a racist in real life. I believe if you were present in some of the RP events with Drahlian, you would enjoy them as well. I believe in most situations, the other players enjoy the argument/conflict/drama. If I sense someone isn\'t having fun, I leave them alone, and/or use a private tell such as \"If you want me to leave you alone, just let me know.\"

I\'d like to thank everyone for their thoughts in this thread. It will definately be a factor in designing the rules and guildlines of the Dwarvesbane guild (assuming it is allowed to continue). Also I\'d like to say the guild currently consists of only 6 members, and I\'d like to keep it small.]

-Drahlian

zanzibar

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Re: Dwarfslaying - a happy pastime ?
« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2006, 02:23:34 am »
This is what was lost:

- Drahlian claims she comes from a city where all dwarves are enslaved.

- A lot of people think that because of this, Drahlian's role-play goes against the planeshift settings.

- People have complimented Drahlian on her role-playing skills.

- DaveG stated that Drahlian and the members of her guild must be more racist than the average member of the planeshift community.
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Goldir

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Re: Dwarfslaying - a happy pastime ?
« Reply #20 on: April 24, 2006, 05:54:10 am »
Drahlian's character is a Diaboli, a race about which it is stated in the PS Handbook: "Diaboli are a happy, bustling, malicious race, quite unreliable. Humility is completely foreign concept to them."  Last I heard Diaboli is just a slightly changed synonym for "Devil".  A Devil being hateful and mean?  Nooo.  Never.

Basically, if you don't like the way Drahlian RP's, don't participate.  I have participated in this roleplay and found it to be quite fun.  A nice change of pace from powerleveling and questing.  All anyone that plays a dwarf character needs in order to defend themselves against Drahlian is a banana peel.  If you are curious about why I say this, ask Drahlian.  She will act offended in RP while laughing her butt off in private messages.  It's a game people.  Enjoy it.  I find the concept of a thieves guild to be as reprehensible as a guild of hatemongerers.  You don't see me trying to get thieves guilds banned or the lockpicking skill removed.

On a tangent, be careful about making personal attacks against the people behind the characters if you are offended by something they do during roleplay.  That person may have other characters in game that act out a completely different roleplaying theme. Also, Planeshift is a FAMILY game as far as I know.  If it isn't intended to be so, maybe someone should think about setting an age limit. Being a family game not only means that it is intended for those of many ages, but it also means that these same people may have other family members playing as well.  I know I would get pretty upset if my wife were playing planeshift and someone made a personal attack against her because of some role playing skit that she participated in. Fortunately my wife doesn't play MMORPG's (mainly because some people get confused between what is real and what is acting and she has a low tolerance level for this) 

Thanks for putting up with my rant.
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zanzibar

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Re: Dwarfslaying - a happy pastime ?
« Reply #21 on: April 24, 2006, 06:00:22 am »
Drahlian's character is a Diaboli, a race about which it is stated in the PS Handbook: "Diaboli are a happy, bustling, malicious race, quite unreliable. Humility is completely foreign concept to them."  Last I heard Diaboli is just a slightly changed synonym for "Devil".  A Devil being hateful and mean?  Nooo.  Never.

Basically, if you don't like the way Drahlian RP's, don't participate.  I have participated in this roleplay and found it to be quite fun.  A nice change of pace from powerleveling and questing.  All anyone that plays a dwarf character needs in order to defend themselves against Drahlian is a banana peel.  If you are curious about why I say this, ask Drahlian.  She will act offended in RP while laughing her butt off in private messages.  It's a game people.  Enjoy it.  I find the concept of a thieves guild to be as reprehensible as a guild of hatemongerers.  You don't see me trying to get thieves guilds banned or the lockpicking skill removed.

On a tangent, be careful about making personal attacks against the people behind the characters if you are offended by something they do during roleplay.  That person may have other characters in game that act out a completely different roleplaying theme. Also, Planeshift is a FAMILY game as far as I know.  If it isn't intended to be so, maybe someone should think about setting an age limit. Being a family game not only means that it is intended for those of many ages, but it also means that these same people may have other family members playing as well.  I know I would get pretty upset if my wife were playing planeshift and someone made a personal attack against her because of some role playing skit that she participated in. Fortunately my wife doesn't play MMORPG's (mainly because some people get confused between what is real and what is acting and she has a low tolerance level for this) 

Thanks for putting up with my rant.


Wouldn't a devil hate everyone though, not just dwarves?
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Goldir

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Re: Dwarfslaying - a happy pastime ?
« Reply #22 on: April 24, 2006, 06:26:12 am »
Wouldn't a devil find great pleasure in fomenting discord by favoring/ostracizing one race over all the others?  Devil's are traditionally associated with chaos and conflict.  Sounds like it would be right up their alley.
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zanzibar

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Re: Dwarfslaying - a happy pastime ?
« Reply #23 on: April 24, 2006, 06:34:47 am »
Wouldn't a devil find great pleasure in fomenting discord by favoring/ostracizing one race over all the others?  Devil's are traditionally associated with chaos and conflict.  Sounds like it would be right up their alley.


I don't see what's chaotic about slavery.  Slavery is usually highly organized.
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DaveG

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Re: Dwarfslaying - a happy pastime ?
« Reply #24 on: April 24, 2006, 10:31:16 am »
Hmm...  The latter half of this thread got cut off in the import to SMF.  :/

Summary:
1) The initial charge of a primarily racist character/guild was more or less agreed to be false.
2)  Explanation of breeding; all one species and can all have children together.  Essentially all the sets of genes for the races are fully overruled by another, and offspring of multiple races have the features of one.  This would imply that no "pure" breeds even exist, and racism simply doesn't exist in this universe.  It's just been written out of the plot.  ;)
3)  Philosophical debate over playing a racist part in a movie vs. game, and about understanding racism.  (trailed off into useless-land, sorry 'bout that...)
4)  More pointless arguing over stuff that never happened.  As far as I'm concerned, what happened here was stupid and should probably stop.  If it was as serious as the initial claims implied, I would want those people to leave.
5)  Slavery has historically just been what happens to the losers of wars.  It's not the best of ideas, but not racist.

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Re: Dwarfslaying - a happy pastime ?
« Reply #25 on: April 24, 2006, 10:47:14 am »

[quoteoriginally posted by davegHmm...  The latter half of this thread got cut off in the import to SMF.  :/
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that's right, don't see my post here :(, what did i wrote again  ??? :'(
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DaveG

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Re: Dwarfslaying - a happy pastime ?
« Reply #26 on: April 24, 2006, 11:02:14 am »

[quoteoriginally posted by davegHmm... The latter half of this thread got cut off in the import to SMF. :/
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that's right, don't see my post here :(, what did i wrote again ??? :'(
Use the quote button, or this board's quote syntax.
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sardit

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« Reply #27 on: April 24, 2006, 02:09:53 pm »
on my character creation i met Drahlian within two days of it and she was doing a nice roleplay with some dwarves, that dwarf however was really to weak for her as it was a newly created character aswell. So i ended up participating in that roleplay and taking out the dwarf in a duell. The second dwarf i duelled came back for a rematch but fled and hid behind Isra who killed me as
the result of a roleplay where he protected that dwarf. The first thing i did upon deciding to join Dwarvesbane ( far before it actually became a guild i might add ) was write up a life story explaining me "hate" for dwarves. The second thing was looking up Kerol and having an ooc conversation about this, Proglin was present there too. It was decided by the three of us ( and Kerol is a Game Master ) that

A racism referrs to ooc racism, eg a dutchman hating germans, and not in game racism
B Following my description there was a good ground to have a character "hating" dwarves.
C Thirdly us being carefull not to take it to far ( eg giving a warning about our background to dwarves ) and accepting players not willing to participate in the roleplay. It really takes just a tell to have Sardit back up out of your life, i will only make a few insults upon the honour of that dwarf and leave disgusted by the sight of such a dishonour. ( and that is only to finish the roleplay somewhat decent, )

When Drahlian talked about a guild for the first time we discussed rules that should be followed, Currently we are working on a set of those for this guild.

So far the two of us have come up with at least the following weightpoints,
- firstly racism should not be a motive to joining Dwarvesbane,
- secondly the character must be willing to roleplay as that is really the reason for this guild to be created. We are here to encourage roleplaying and duelling between players because in our opinion that doesnt happen near enough in game.
- thirdly any members of our guild must step out of our way to refrain from "newbie bashing" If a character is by far to weak to face us in combat then we will only accept a challenge if the roleplay of that character really forces us. ( or if in private messages we agreed to have a duel )
If you keep a track of my duels you see that i have lost near a third, most of those have been against stronger opponents following a roleplay, If i have to die to end it fittingly, then heck, i go to the deathrealm.

The character Sardit has a few dwarf friends, and some of those are hostile enough in roleplay, There really is no racist motive on my part in this roleplay.

Here is a link to the background story of Sardit http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=23195.0

I hope to have shone some light on my motives and my goals in joining this guild, i also hope that you will understand that there is a reason for this guild and that we really arent that bad

*edit*

[ OUT OF TOPIC]


To be honest though, I feel any information gained through the \"description\" is really OOC - unless it is truly a description of a specific item that s/he has on their person, ie. wears a long, dark, weather worn cloak.  I would like to see all the additional information removed.  One should only figure out \"this guy is a dwarf slayer\" through character interactions and when it is discovered, should be accepted as part of an in character role play as should EVERYTHING that occurs in game.  Sure their will be violators, but they need to be pulled to the side and gently corrected through tells.


i completely agree Araye, however if i try to act out my character there tend to be players, and some not even dwarves themself, that perhaps lack the skill to distinguish between roleplay and real life. They just challenge me ooc before i have the chance to act out even remotely my background story, after that things get messy with me declining and trying to play out my character while they begin cursing and screaming that i need to accept their challenge. Now if that challenge was based upon a roleplay or at least their in character behaviour then id be accepting gladly, but since they just go that direction without taking the time to perform at least some semblance of roleplay before they challenge i am forced to put up a description like this to avoid these unpleasantries. And strangely after they have read the description they tend to change their attitude a lot some will still challenge me ofcourse, but now at least it is somewhat based upon roleplay. WIch suits me far better then not having the chance to perform my roleplay at all.

Please avoid posting two or more successive posts before others have replied. Just edit your last post to add new information :) Thanks! --Karyuu
« Last Edit: April 24, 2006, 07:33:36 pm by Karyuu »

r.guppy

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Re: Dwarfslaying - a happy pastime ?
« Reply #28 on: April 24, 2006, 02:36:32 pm »
:thumbdown:
 To me i don't care how well you roll play it it is still racist, if i make a corrector i don't expect some one to pick on me just because of the race i chose to be. Some [delets swear word] carrector is going around wonting to kill all Yelian, he made the mistack of picking on me.

 The point is it breads racism, so please find a new Way to enjoy the game.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2006, 02:42:10 pm by r.guppy »

ou8i8uo

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Re: Dwarfslaying - a happy pastime ?
« Reply #29 on: April 24, 2006, 04:19:19 pm »
For some reason I am thinking the only ones that can really complain are her victims.
* ou8i8uo looks around for a complaining dwarf