Author Topic: Ideas To make The RPG Factor Better  (Read 2854 times)

Rockhoof

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Re: Ideas To make The RPG Factor Better
« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2006, 07:44:32 pm »
4. The idea of having to throw things away and having to shower off afterwards reminds me of the people who want us to have taxes in the game.  It is as if they want all the things that are boring or stupid about the world to be replicated in game.  It is supposed to be immersive but it is also supposed to be an escape from reality.  Getting online and having to take out the trash makes me think eventually you will want me to have an NPC wife who nags me about the trash 24x7 just to be realistic like my r/l wife. :-)

- Venge

Ohh, I'm not so sure about this one, though I do agree with you on your other points.  Now, this argument doesn't come so much from an RP stand-point as much as from a game-design stand-point, so bear with me for a second.

In every RPG game, you have a bunch of players generating cash, call it tria or gold or dollars or whatever.  The more experienced your 'toon, the better, generally, you are at generating this cash.  You run into a SERIOUS problem when there are a bunch of actors in an economic system generating - directly - the means to purchase goods and services, but no equally effective means for UN-generating such things.  This is called MUD-flation and is a problem in almost every game I've ever seen that allows trade between characters.  It is a basic principle of economics that an excess of purchasing power increases prices, returning the relative ratio of purchasing power/price to some stable point.  In other words, more money just lying around in the system inflates prices because people have more money to pay for stuff.  If money stops coming IN to the system, the system will tend to settle at the new, but higher, prices.  The problem with MUDs and MMOs is that money is constantly being generated.  A viable economic system in an MMO of any variety will have mechanisms to REMOVE money from the system as well as the standard 'monsters drop gold' system of creating it. 

Repair bills (and not allowing characters to repair themselves or others), taxes (items sell for a fraction of the price that they are bought from vendors, sales to other players take a percentage out of profit &ct.), quests that require 'donations' (especially repeatable ones that give some in game benefit) and activities that don't directly generate money, but still 'improve' the character in some way are all good, even great, ways to reduce MUD-flation.

Bad ways to reduce MUD-flation include Argumentum ad Baculum or direct developer involvement, like globally reducing a player's bank account by a certain percentage, or other ways of 'resetting' the economy; taking items out of the game, this just moves the burden onto OTHER items; drastic changes in mob drop-values, this is effective, but drastic changes are equally chaotic and are very often victims of the "Law of Unintended Consequences".  These don't actually solve the problem at hand, which is that there is too much money coming into the system and not enough going OUT of it.  I can start another thread if you'd like a more in depth (and formulaic) discussion on the matter of game-economies, but that's the basic outline - actually, I think I will start a new thread... this is an important issue. 

Taxes are a GOOD thing in MMOs so, "Let there be Taxes!"

Vengeance

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Re: Ideas To make The RPG Factor Better
« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2006, 11:50:58 pm »
I know we're already discussing this in another thread, but money growth per se isn't inflationary.  It is money growth in excess of economic growth which is inflationary.  If people are producing things (killing rats, etc.) they can be rewarded without it necessarily leading to inflation.  Also, if the population is growing, wealth can grow without inflation, even printing money right and left.  My point is, it isn't quite as simple as you make it out to be.  Also, my libertarian leanings will make me barf if we start building into our game the notion that higher taxes and governments will solve our problems.  :-)

- Vengeance

Ahriman

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Re: Ideas To make The RPG Factor Better
« Reply #17 on: June 13, 2006, 03:37:14 am »
Wow vengeance, WOW. WOW. I MEAN WOW Isn't vengeance Luca Pancallo? I think he is but not sure... oh well.


Very good ideas. The thing about the shops closing for the night is one of the reasons Oblivion is the top game now. I love them ideas. I just hope they will be implemented sooner or later.  :o 8)

Karyuu

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Re: Ideas To make The RPG Factor Better
« Reply #18 on: June 13, 2006, 03:39:24 am »
Talad's real name is Luca Pancallo. Vengeance is his own person ;)
Judge: Are you trying to show contempt for this court, Mr Smith?
Smith: No, My Lord. I am attempting to conceal it.

Ahriman

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Re: Ideas To make The RPG Factor Better
« Reply #19 on: June 14, 2006, 12:31:36 am »
Ah, alright then. /me get's mixed-up often. Will me get  :ban: Probably not...

hydran

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Re: Ideas To make The RPG Factor Better
« Reply #20 on: June 24, 2006, 05:50:10 pm »
actully i have a bit of ideas to make the game  :beta: toooo


1. about the death realm there is no point of it maybe you could put a little minning innit a bit of monster :thumbup:s

2. you need to change the looks of the creatures like the menki`s u know that planeshift comic strip menkies would looks nicer  if they look like that eg diggrent species of each catagory


 3. it would be good if it  resebled a bit of every day life it would make it goodeg sleeping bathing going work u know wat i mean


your best friend hydran

Karyuu

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Re: Ideas To make The RPG Factor Better
« Reply #21 on: June 24, 2006, 08:25:00 pm »
Hydran, please read the Wishlist Rules and post sensibly.
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Smith: No, My Lord. I am attempting to conceal it.

Astraea

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Re: Ideas To make The RPG Factor Better
« Reply #22 on: June 25, 2006, 08:42:03 am »

In every RPG game, you have a bunch of players generating cash, call it tria or gold or dollars or whatever.  The more experienced your 'toon, the better, generally, you are at generating this cash.  You run into a SERIOUS problem when there are a bunch of actors in an economic system generating - directly - the means to purchase goods and services, but no equally effective means for UN-generating such things.  This is called MUD-flation and is a problem in almost every game I've ever seen that allows trade between characters.  It is a basic principle of economics that an excess of purchasing power increases prices, returning the relative ratio of purchasing power/price to some stable point.  In other words, more money just lying around in the system inflates prices because people have more money to pay for stuff.  If money stops coming IN to the system, the system will tend to settle at the new, but higher, prices.  The problem with MUDs and MMOs is that money is constantly being generated.  A viable economic system in an MMO of any variety will have mechanisms to REMOVE money from the system as well as the standard 'monsters drop gold' system of creating it. 

......

Taxes are a GOOD thing in MMOs so, "Let there be Taxes!"

True, money is constantly being generated, but it's also being constantly used up when people train skills in Planeshift. Right now it's 42 trias per progression point trained, and it forces players to use up their trias, no matter if they are new to the game or not. While to experienced players 42 trias is nothing, it's a lot for a beginner, who has to travel great distances to sell rat parts (not including the DR). The training then, acts as a regressive tax. In that case, it would make sense to change the training into a progressive tax to prevent inflation and powerleveling, assuming it can be done.

[If this has been mentioned in another thread, feel free to ignore this.]

Back to the original topic:
I think digging through a trashheap would be fun. Occasionally find a treasure or two ;) "One man's trash is another's treasure." I'm not too fond of the idea of trash lying all around the streets of Ojaveda and Hydlaa, but I've found an expensive sword and two glyphs just lying about in the Death Realm before.