Venting ... To be or not to be?

[zorbels]

Ok we all know we have our good and bad days. As of late I have noticed alot of tension between players and alot of disagreements on the forums. People say they shy away from the forums for fear of flaming. It is a shame when there is a new thread made that all it takes is one comment and the topic becomes off topic and a war zone. This may have been suggested before but I am going to suggest it again if it has been .... could we not have a thread for venting? With in reason of course. Somewhere for the players to voice their disagreements instead of flooding a perfectly good topics? I am only seeing the positive side to this suggestion and may not see the down fall to having this "Venting thread" so what does everyone else think. More importantly, what do the mods think ... after all they are the ones having to police the forums.

[Kixie]

I think that flames has been proposed enough times, and of course denied enough times. Although I don't know the exact circumstances for which the request has been veto'd, I'm pretty sure they run along the lines of a) Player Harassment b) Underage Influence.

Player Harassment is something that Planeshift definately tries to discourage. My entire stay in planeshift has been a very calm and friendly one, and that's a quality I'd personally like to keep. While often there are disagreements between certain players on and off the forums, and these quarrels may drag on and off the forum, they are usually not out of hand. Within little more than an hour, the problem is dealt with and the conflicting players often resolve their situation, or just give up. I like our friendly atmosphere.

Finally Underage Influence is something I think Talad also finds important, as does the rest of the administration and moderation team. Planeshift, I estimate, has a player population marking 40% in the <18 range. Flaming and fighting often ends up in... choice words being thrown around. So, being that Planeshift is a game filled with impressionable youth, I think it better to abstain completely from the use of explitives in and out of game.

That's pretty much it. There are kids around, dude. Planeshift isn't like alot of other MMO's out there, in the fact that the populous of Planeshift is pretty mature, calm and reserved. This is a good ambience I think, and it kind of keeps me around. There are plenty of other places on the internet to vent; going so far as games are made just for stress relieving purposes. So, go type in your favorite hate site and do your venting there. We don't want it here.

[Santiago]

We would prefer not to encourage any type of public flamewars or arguments. PMs are absolutely fine for this purpose, because in most cases arguments tend to degenerate into one-on-one battles.

[Karyuu]

This still stands:

The basic purpose of our job is to keep the forums clean and under control. Our forums are not just for fans- many prospective developers and those from other projects (such as Crystal Space) visit them frequently to check out the place and get a feel for the project. We want to create the impression that our community is happy, spam-free, and an all-round friendly place to be.

I don't understand why people feel time and time again that their personal arguments need to be made public, and why PMs can't work. Rather, I do understand, but I wish I didn't... There is absolutely no need for this sort of "display" here. If people want to vent, they either need to learn self-control, or take it off the public boards. I don't wish to hear of every personal argument someone has with another person, nor do I wish to walk through a central thread for this and weed out all the little nasties from a place already drowning in negativity. I want to have a pleasant time here too. Moreover, that would sanctify such behavior and make people feel more confident that it is alright - when it is nowhere near fine.

We try to promote maturity and intelligent discourse here, and if people want to goof around they have all the freedom to create their own venting forums and disagree their little heads off over there. However, PlaneShift will not support this officially.

[zorbels]

Ok after reading those posts it seems clear to me that you don't understand what I am suggesting. I don't want to know peoples personal arguments thank you very much. I would like actually to have them removed from these threads.

I understood all the points made  but I also think it is a shame to have off topic arguments  ruin a thread. This is why I suggest a venting thread (or called something else). Not to full out fight in or say bad words or influence the youngins or be a jerk.

For example when the  RP superthread developing in PS now! was created and karyuu made another thread called Shadow in the Hills critique for the comments that just didn't seem to belong in the super roleplay thread. That worked out well, people could carry on in the super roleplay thread and not have their stories disturbed. If they had something to say other than talking about the story they posted in the Shadow in the Hills critique thread.

So I am not trying to propose a place to breed stupidity and allow huge fighting and negitivity, I was suggesting a thread for all the topics that get out of hand and really don't belong in that particular thread, basically moved out of the thread to the "Venting thread". I guess the garbage dump thread if you will. A place were it can have all of the off topic messy, silly little disputes worked out. Again I say within reason. These disputes are already happening .... I was merely suggesting a place to dump them so that they wouldn't infect the topics being posted.

[Santiago]

I understand what you mean, and the suggestion is appreciated. The intentions are good but this would be quite some work moving all 'flammy' posts into this one thread. It would become very confusing with arguments from all over the forum getting dumped into one conversation, many of them involving the same people. I maintain also that it would still encourage arguments, even if that is not the intention. Also note that it can often be hard to see where the line is drawn between a regular discussion and one that may be becoming out of line, and not everyone will agree when their discussions get moved to the "trash" thread. I think it would cause problems overall, and would rather see people excersize self control when posting.

[Kixie]

Ok after reading those posts it seems clear to me that you don't understand what I am suggesting. 

Reading your original post and reply, I can't see what you're suggesting if it ISN'T a flaming thread? There are a few things that make up a flaming thread: Anger, offtopic threads, venting and noobs. You've described 3/4. Those 3 will most likely breed the 4th.

Venting is flaming. If you express something that is negative, someone is going to want to correct you on it eventually. That leads to a dispute, which leads to more quarreling, which leads to mudslinging and cursing. By the time you look back, you've got flames going on. It's not a pretty sight, and not worth the moderation to keep it in check. Karyuu has a hard enough time as it is, I'm sure.

Either we are completely ignorant, or you're not explaining yourself thorougly enough.

[zorbels]

I understand what you mean, and the suggestion is appreciated. The intentions are good but this would be quite some work moving all 'flammy' posts into this one thread. It would become very confusing with arguments from all over the forum getting dumped into one conversation, many of them involving the same people. I maintain also that it would still encourage arguments, even if that is not the intention. Also note that it can often be hard to see where the line is drawn between a regular discussion and one that may be becoming out of line, and not everyone will agree when their discussions get moved to the "trash" thread. I think it would cause problems overall, and would rather see people excersize self control when posting.

Thank you! Now that was the kind of feedback I was looking for. All very good reasons to not have the "grabage dump thread." Thanks Santiago,you have shown me the negitive to my positive. After reading your post I can understand why this wouldn't be done.  

[Edit] @ Kixie: Why do I get the feeling that you are trying to be a jerk about this and insult my intelligence. I am not being ignorant, and I DID explain why I felt no one seemed to understand what I was saying. You are demonstrating as far as I am concerned how NOT to approach someone with your opinion and how to be unbelievably negitive and cause a fight. If that is not the impression you are trying to give off then I apologise. Please do not talk to me like I am a five year old though, I CAN read english and as Santiago said, "The intentions are good " ... so what is your deal?

[Kiern]

?  The forums seem way more calm now then ever....and I think as this proves:

[Edit] @ Kixie: Why do I get the feeling that you are trying to be a jerk about this and insult my intelligence. I am not being ignorant, and I DID explain why I felt no one seemed to understand what I was saying. You are demonstrating as far as I am concerned how NOT to approach someone with your opinion and how to be unbelievably negitive and cause a fight. If that is not the impression you are trying to give off then I apologise. Please do not talk to me like I am a five year old though, I CAN read english and as Santiago said, "The intentions are good " ... so what is your deal?

You take offense way too easily.  Which as I see it, is more of a problem.

[zorbels]

?  The forums seem way more calm now then ever....and I think as this proves:
You take offense way too easily.  Which as I see it, is more of a problem.

Perhaps, then again perhaps not. That is why I also said ......

If that is not the impression you are trying to give off then I apologise.

I also mean the apology sincerely if in fact I was wrong and I did get the wrong impression. I don't think with the way this was worded (Points down to the quote) that he was just simply stating the facts and leaving it at that. This one sentance was why I had to question where this attitude from him was coming from. I did explain myself clearly I felt. Also Kiern I don't feel I am being overly dramatic, sorry you seem to think I get offended to easy. I do have the right however to defend myself when feeling attacked. This is what I felt I did.

Either we are completely ignorant, or you're not explaining yourself thorougly enough.

[Xordan]

Notice how this thread has turned into argument and negativity within a few replies. Quite ironic.

And personally I don't think we should have such a place, for reasons stated above by Santiago.

[Karyuu]

The forums are full of people itching to argue over every little thing. Taking offense at this, attacking that. Everyone needs to relax. And perhaps worry about something more important, like rainforests. It's easy to misinterpret text, but we should be trying harder to take this into consideration when replying. Kixie wasn't attacking Zorbels, and in another thread and in another argument Pestilence wasn't attacking Sarff, and the only people who do attack already get warnings from mods.

Seriously though, there is too much stress here sometimes. It's just a forum, that, yes can be very important for many of us, but is ultimately not a place for trifle arguments. Your life's reputation doesn't depend on it. Let's take a deep breath as a forum, and move on.

My apologies to everyone for closing the thread previously. It was a "preemptive action" that was evidently done too early, and I didn't mean to cause any further arguments or conflicts.

[zorbels]

  Well behind the scenes in PMs things were cleared up for me. I have been informed that Kixie is in no way trying to insult me. So again Kixie I apologise for taking it that way. It was the way it was worded, that is all. Now I know different and can read the post in a new light. Thanks Karyuu for opening this thread again I really appreciate it, I was able to clear up any misunderstanding and now we can all move on. Heh... as I said in my first post... everyone has their good days and their bad.

[zanzibar]

Ok we all know we have our good and bad days. As of late I have noticed alot of tension between players and alot of disagreements on the forums. People say they shy away from the forums for fear of flaming. It is a shame when there is a new thread made that all it takes is one comment and the topic becomes off topic and a war zone. This may have been suggested before but I am going to suggest it again if it has been .... could we not have a thread for venting? With in reason of course. Somewhere for the players to voice their disagreements instead of flooding a perfectly good topics? I am only seeing the positive side to this suggestion and may not see the down fall to having this "Venting thread" so what does everyone else think. More importantly, what do the mods think ... after all they are the ones having to police the forums.

The problem is that what you're describing isn't "venting".  It's lashing out.  It's vindictive, hateful, disruptive, dishonest, wicked, etcetera.

To me, venting means getting something off your chest.  It means being honest about things that you've been locking up.  What happens on these forums is not venting though - it's individuals trying to attack one another, trying to inflict pain and hurt and damage upon people who they feel they've been wronged by.  I don't think that crap has a place in the real world, and I don't think it has a place here.

[Cyl]

I don't understand why people feel time and time again that their personal arguments need to be made public, and why PMs can't work. Rather, I do understand, but I wish I didn't... There is absolutely no need for this sort of "display" here.

People want attention, short and simple, ..., and it's best if others are pulled in the dirt during that process.

Personally I find the eternal back and forth arguments, the finger pointing and the ocasional freaked out guy who can't control his temper, rather amusing.  This whole "flaming-phase" is like cyclic decadence, sometimes you think you are over it, but it always comes back, no matter what.