Author Topic: Progressive chat and attention shortcut  (Read 1568 times)

Nevil

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Progressive chat and attention shortcut
« on: May 21, 2006, 09:49:59 pm »
The problem:

I found a problem playing this game, maybe for the most of you this isn't a real problem or something that should be implemented..
When you walk in the world the most of the player (you too) go on their ways never ( or maybe rarely) paying attention if someone is saying something (asking help  :'()
Today i'll run all my day-adventure in "silent-mode" (not stalking or stealth  :P) just saying nothing not chatting ,not telling ,not shouting (there was noone of my buddylist  :().
Suddenly i saw one  player with a dagger (i suppose it was a dagger, it was smaller than a short sword) and since i was searching all the world for a dagger i write on the chat "where you bought it" he doesn't answer... ??? so i put myself in front of him and chatted "**hisname** etc..." nothing happens :sweatdrop:  i tried jumping, telling... He went on his way... :'(
This is an example but i found that also I sometimes catch by the games.. the monster  or from hundreds of other things...  :-X ..I forgot to look at the "chat" tab also if it's blinking... :-[ sometimes i look at it too late.. other times i don't have the phisical time to follow chat, group-tell, and other things...

The solutions:

The solution is making an important message (like "help me"  or "where ican find..") easyer to see. i don't know how.. for example adding to /tell something more (but i think that /shout was created for this scope :sweatdrop:) or when someone shout the other receive something on their screen (hoping that this does not happen already  :oops:) i'm thinking about messenger's pop-up those that say "you have a new email" ;).. An icon on a corner of the screen...
Or it can be a shortcut command that allows you doing something particular ,something that means you want attentions (more than simple jumping) and when you see a player doing that gesture (for ex. raising an hand in order to ask attention) you wait a moment or you can look in the chat tab..
It will be a great step making people transmitting ideas with their body (3d-model) but this for me is the frst to do.. because if you have attention you can start a discussion..
Pressing the "h" letter (for example) will be like saying "ehy you, yes you please stop a moment and listen to me" or "i'm here can you see me?" It would be fun  :lol:

Progressive chat:

Thinking about the things explained up.. :whistling:
i've got an other idea... :whistling: it is possible making  the sentences in the chat/tell/group more visible if the person talking is near to you and less visible (dark or half-transparent) if the person is at a certain distance? it will be great! no? you have a greater perception of the sentences sayd near you (in your ears) and if someone is distant you hear it "distant" :D

ok it's all  :sorcerer:
« Last Edit: May 21, 2006, 09:54:55 pm by Nevil »
-Give me a pencil, a paper sheet and a beautiful girl and you can also throw away the sheet and the pencil..-
-Datemi un foglio di carta una matita e una bella ragazza e questo punto potete anche tenervi il foglio e la matita..-

DaveG

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Re: Progressive chat and attention shortcut
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2006, 11:26:15 pm »
Smiley... over... dose...

People just need to check their chat box, really.  I added a /warn command for GMs which also puts the message in big red letters in the middle of the screen, but it's obviously not for players.

With the progressive chatting, that idea has come up before.  One thing I thought of doing was to alter the range based on the degree of chatting and noise in the area.  If you're in a quite area you can generally hear farther, and in a crowded place like the plaza you probably shouldn't hear as far away.  Doing shades for range sounds like a nifty twist.  Might be a decent idea, actually.

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Tarel

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Re: Progressive chat and attention shortcut
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2006, 12:45:32 am »
And i can tell you from my expirience, that our warning messages are ignored by players sometimes too.
Greetings,

Tarel Barilele


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Quote from DaveG: I've said it before, and I'll say it again, please don't blame the game when you screw up.

neko kyouran

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Re: Progressive chat and attention shortcut
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2006, 12:49:39 am »
Whhheeeeee smillies everywhere. muhahaha


Ehem....Ok, serious now.


One concern about your ideas about your solution mentioned.  A pop up would be out, just another way to spam someone.  As for a little icon in the screen, meh, deends on what it is, how big, how much it sticks out.  Again, could be abused, plus I like my gui simple and clean with only the bare minimum windows open for a greater immersion.  Adding my icons would just mean more clutter.  The best way that I see, would just be to say something like "Hello [enter name] (or $target with them selected)"  and maybe have a emote that waves or something that you set to a button that you press to add to the text to try and get there attention.  Using their name inthe line oftext changes the color on thier chat box, so wit that and a wave, I would see that as enough.  Maybe something like whatthis little guy is doing.... \\o//  Only, not make it look not as excited and more like a desperate motion.

Yes I know there is a wave you greet someone, that would work, but maybe have a new different type of wave, more like a frantic one rather than a simple smooth 'how do you do' one like we have now.  That would be the best way to get some ones attention I would think.  It would serve its purpose and if they liked, they could still ignore the other player and it wouldn't be as annoying as a pop up box, or icon on screen. 

* neko kyouran thinks about seeing people run by franticly waveing thier arms in the air yelling 'help me!' as they are chased by an ulber.

 :devil:

Seytra

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Re: Progressive chat and attention shortcut
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2006, 01:10:36 am »
Suddenly i saw one  player with a dagger (i suppose it was a dagger, it was smaller than a short sword) and since i was searching all the world for a dagger i write on the chat "where you bought it" he doesn't answer... ??? so i put myself in front of him and chatted "**hisname** etc..." nothing happens :sweatdrop:  i tried jumping, telling... He went on his way... :'(
This is an example but i found that also I sometimes catch by the games.. the monster  or from hundreds of other things...  :-X ..I forgot to look at the "chat" tab also if it's blinking... :-[ sometimes i look at it too late.. other times i don't have the phisical time to follow chat, group-tell, and other things...
From the description it is obvious to me that that player did not suffer from any of the issues you mentioned. You were simply being ignored, on purpose. For what reasons I can only guess, but there are some that are likely:

- different language: The player doesn't understand / speak english, even though PS is officially english, some people simply refuse to speak anything but their native tongue. Maybe they simply fear to be laughed at for bad wording or misunderstandings, though misunderstood national pride is another possible reason, which is just equally bad. Either way, that may have been it.

- plain old PL: the player might simply not be interested in the communicative aspect of PS, and merely abusing it as a levelling / ranking system. No words, just fight, gain loot, rinse, repeat. Maybe they were on the system log tab so they could see the damage dealt better, uninterrupted by polluting chat.

IOW, nothing short of a modal dialog could have made the player even look at your messages.

The solution is making an important message (like "help me"  or "where ican find..") easyer to see. i don't know how.. for example adding to /tell something more (but i think that /shout was created for this scope :sweatdrop:) or when someone shout the other receive something on their screen (hoping that this does not happen already  :oops:) i'm thinking about messenger's pop-up those that say "you have a new email" ;).. An icon on a corner of the screen...
Bad, very bad idea, except maybe the icon on the corner (which will be more easily overlooked than a blinking chat tab AFAICS).
The reason is that /shout is not meant for anything but real shouting, in character. With the added drawback that it has a way larger radius than RL shouting, akin to using a megaphone.
The problem is that it will be abused, and I am 100%certain that >80% of the uses of that system would be plain abuse, making it a highly annoying feature that would, in no time, be requested to be removed. It would even be more annoying than the duel / guild invite spam before a system was put in place to counteract it.

What you were looking for is the help channel, which has it's own tab in the chat box.
Or it can be a shortcut command that allows you doing something particular ,something that means you want attentions (more than simple jumping) and when you see a player doing that gesture (for ex. raising an hand in order to ask attention) you wait a moment or you can look in the chat tab..
It will be a great step making people transmitting ideas with their body (3d-model) but this for me is the frst to do.. because if you have attention you can start a discussion..
Aye, emotes like this are a good thing, and present in many games, though to different extent and for different things. They are a must-have in an MMORPG AFAICS, and therefore will eventually be in PS. However, ATM, PS doesn't even have the most basic animations, like /sit and death, so things like that will have to wait until there are no more pressing things to do.
Also, this would not have solved the issue you had, since gestures would be just as easily to ignore as jumping (which is, due to it's constant abuse by clueless / annoying players, mostly interpreted as a sign of foolishness). IOW, it'd not have helped in your situation.
Pressing the "h" letter (for example) will be like saying "ehy you, yes you please stop a moment and listen to me" or "i'm here can you see me?" It would be fun  :lol:
You can already do that by setting a shortcut and then assigning a hotkey to it. Would, however, not have been different from using the chat box directly.

I think that you, unless you made some really big mistake, simply have had the questionable honor to meet the wrong player(s). Any decent player would respond in some way to a question that looks honest. While most players indeed go about their journeying silently, for the simple reason you do the same IRL, in addition to knowing that most players you meet will, indeed, ignore you for one of the reasons above, the decent ones will always reply when prompted (a reasonable attitude given), unless they're AFK (but 1) have auto-reply on and 2) sending a /tell when they get back).
i've got an other idea... :whistling: it is possible making  the sentences in the chat/tell/group more visible if the person talking is near to you and less visible (dark or half-transparent) if the person is at a certain distance? it will be great! no? you have a greater perception of the sentences sayd near you (in your ears) and if someone is distant you hear it "distant" :D
The issue with that is that /say is already, as you noted, hard to follow sometimes. Adding more obstacles to that, like making reading even harder by fading text into the background, isn't that good, considering that it isn't always easy to position yourself near the source. However, if done well, this could indeed be a good thing; for example, talk from the next table would be more easily identifyable than talk on your table, i.e., you don't have to sort by name (thus speeding things up).

It would tie in well with the variable distance proposal, which I think is good as well. What we also could have is focus. You could, for example, focus on a player / group of players. Maybe a temporary focus list that is added to / removed from by CTRL-leftclicking a char. Also, people on your BL could be assigned a default focus, since it is likely you will talk to them with the same emphasis all the time.
That focus would modify your chat by making the not focused chat blend into the background, by both making it less prominent and suppressing it on shorter distance than usual. Without focused-on people nearby, things would be normal. Also, the focus list needs to de-populate when the focused-on leave some radius, which needs to be larget than /say range.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2006, 01:12:17 am by Seytra »

Nevil

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Re: Progressive chat and attention shortcut
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2006, 09:50:07 am »
  One thing I thought of doing was to alter the range based on the degree of chatting and noise in the area.  If you're in a quite area you can generally hear farther, and in a crowded place like the plaza you probably shouldn't hear as far away.  Doing shades for range sounds like a nifty twist.  Might be a decent idea, actually.

I think this idea is great near that of focusing on some players. Progresive chat for makes things better because filters your dialogs making you reading better sentences pronounced by people in front of you (the one you are talking with) :) and you understand immediatly if a sentence in the chat is for you or has been sayd to an other player near where you are. 8)
Sometimes while i'm chatting i read someone saying something but i don't know if this person is talking to me to all or to an other person.. the chat tab is simply to use instead of telling.. or maybe a newbie doesn't know he can tell and try only putting his character near you and chat.. A progressive chat also helps you understand who is near you :thumbup: yesterday me and my group decided to have an adventure toghether and when we decided to start our trip i ask if they were all ready to go and all say yes but someone was lost somewhere near us and we start without him he was stuck in atunnel i think ???

  A pop up would be out, just another way to spam someone.  As for a little icon in the screen, meh, deends on what it is, how big, how much it sticks out.  Again, could be abused, plus I like my gui simple and clean with only the bare minimum windows open for a greater immersion.  Adding my icons would just mean more clutter.  The best way that I see, would just be to say something like "Hello [enter name] (or $target with them selected)"  and maybe have a emote that waves or something that you set to a button that you press to add to the text to try and get there attention.  Using their name inthe line oftext changes the color on thier chat box, so wit that and a wave, I would see that as enough.  Maybe something like whatthis little guy is doing.... \\o//  Only, not make it look not as excited and more like a desperate motion.

Yes I know there is a wave you greet someone, that would work, but maybe have a new different type of wave, more like a frantic one rather than a simple smooth 'how do you do' one like we have now.  That would be the best way to get some ones attention I would think.  It would serve its purpose and if they liked, they could still ignore the other player and it wouldn't be as annoying as a pop up box, or icon on screen.

Yes maybe a pop-up could be abused but a small icon in a particular place (so when you see something in that corner you know there is someone asking you attention) ... I tried saying hello and also shortcutting a phrase but as i have seen this doesn't change the situation  :-\ i think that the better way it's a body action different from jumping (yes jumping makes me look mad \\o//) i think something like rising an hand (like "hey you"  :)) not the two hands (like "arghhh aaaaaah :o) a kind of convention between players.. they know that when you see someone doing that he ask attention..

@ Seytra i'm not a wrong players but sometimes also I see too late the message and i can only tell something to this player if he's still online and if he still has that problem..

Ah i'm one of the player that speak and understand the 40-60% of english language if i made some mistakes correct me :sweatdrop: if you see a mistakes don't think it's something i write because writing to fast  :sorcerer:
-Give me a pencil, a paper sheet and a beautiful girl and you can also throw away the sheet and the pencil..-
-Datemi un foglio di carta una matita e una bella ragazza e questo punto potete anche tenervi il foglio e la matita..-

Ahriman

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Re: Progressive chat and attention shortcut
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2006, 02:53:54 pm »
About the thing you said that "Pressing h makes you say 'Hey you, yes you could you come over here and help me'. This is already implemented. Just go to your shortcuts menu, right click on one of the empty slots, for the title you could say "My Help Saying" or whatever you want, and in the command box, type /say Hey you, yes you, could you come over here and help me? For the shortcut assign the letter H. close the shortcut window and pres H. Voila!
Also, if you want to /tell the nearest person to ask a questions, just open the shortcut window, for the title put Tell Ask and in the commands box type this:

/target next nearest player
/tell Hey you, yes you, could you please come over here and help me

There you go. I ROCK! Wooho.  ;D \\o// :detective:

lanser

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Re: Progressive chat and attention shortcut
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2006, 06:25:36 am »
/target next nearest player
/tell Hey you, yes you, could you please come over here and help me

There you go. I ROCK! Wooho.  ;D \\o// :detective:

do that and get a nice red "player is not online" sign appear
try instead

/target next nearest player
/tell $target Hey you, yes you, could you please come over here and help me
Hokinon Korere
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Re: Progressive chat and attention shortcut
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2008, 06:25:43 am »
Why not have a variable range for the main chat window, then?  That would allow you to specify how far/near you're 'listening' at the moment.  It would be a big help in areas like Kada-El's, where there are conversations from the third floor easily heard on the first.  (/focus <short/medium/long> or /focus <1m-20m>, for example.)

Homik

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Re: Progressive chat and attention shortcut
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2008, 05:54:16 am »
Quote
is doing.... Clap  Only, not make it look not as excited and more like a desperate motion.

Yes I know there is a wave you greet someone, that would work, but maybe have a new different type of wave, more like a frantic one rather than a simple smooth 'how do you do' one like we have now.

Holy cow, i think i would pee my pants if i saw a bunch of noobs desperately flailing their arms about at people.  ;D

freeharte

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Re: Progressive chat and attention shortcut
« Reply #10 on: August 23, 2008, 06:37:15 am »
I have to wonder...  How many people, if they saw a guy running around with a dagger, would want to jump in front of him and try to get his attention?  ;)