The grand balance of good vs evil

[ou8i8uo]

Gah,...6 pages later and I'm thinking "erm, what was the question?"
As far as good and evil go, ya can't have one without the other and I have to disagree with Karyuu's statement a while back, you need player cooperation to RP evil and newbies often don't even understand what roleplay is or are even aware that this is in fact a roleplaying game.Their concept of roleplay is often that of Zelda or Final Fantasy.
So, in order to RP evil acts you must turn to your veteran friends who actually do understand the concept of roleplay. Sure, you can accept a challenge from a newbie and stand there and cast a weakness spell on him or her until they drop their inventory, but I am told that this is a bug? Thats absurd, why even have the glyph in the game then? So in this instance, according to some, you have to exploit a bug to do it. Oh sure, some newbies may be easily manipulated to do certain things but more often than not, if one is successful at this task, theyr'e not going to realize it was RP and they take it as an OOC act.
As far as Dwarvesbane goes, I think it's an original premise for roleplay even if it is an ugly one.
One thing we all should remember is that we are setting a precedence for future roleplayers. The newbies that come into game are going to follow our example and learn from our mistakes...hopefully.

[Karyuu]

You speak as though every newbie has the brain of a buffalo. Not including them in RP or thinking that they are going to get so confused that it's not even worth pursuing, is very disappointing to hear from you. The original discussion of the thread included some suggestions as to what roleplaying an evil character may include - and challenging them to duels was by far the least necessary of them all. So why don't you extend some more effort into your roleplaying to explain the concept to new players, and let them know that it is a game - no matter how rude your character may be, there are no hard feelings and their character can do things just as "mean" or even worse - if that's their character.

What I see from you is a general attitude of "They won't understand at all, pass them over."

The newbies that come into game are going to follow our example and learn from our mistakes...hopefully.

Yes, hopefully new players will realize that it's just as fun to make new friends as it is to play with the old. Let's unstick ourselves from our comfortable circles every now and then and experience the wider world.

[zanzibar]

Zanzibar the settings are a guide not the world. (That is the point I was trying to get across earlier) And in any world you will have lots and lots of bad apples (even in an idealic world such as plainshift). There are lots of incharacter reasons which fit well into the planeshift settingfor a human to dislike Enkis because they shed. To say that such a thing viloates the Planeshift setting is the same as saying that individuality and human nature viloate the setting. Though my main character has no problem with the other races I will never play him as if he is a cardboard cutout made to fit perfictly with what someone else says he should be.

What you're saying is that the settings need to be changed.

[Hatchnet]

Zanzibar the settings are a guide not the world. (That is the point I was trying to get across earlier) And in any world you will have lots and lots of bad apples (even in an idealic world such as plainshift). There are lots of incharacter reasons which fit well into the planeshift settingfor a human to dislike Enkis because they shed. To say that such a thing viloates the Planeshift setting is the same as saying that individuality and human nature viloate the setting. Though my main character has no problem with the other races I will never play him as if he is a cardboard cutout made to fit perfictly with what someone else says he should be.

What you're saying is that the settings need to be changed.

No Zanzibar, though the settings are out of date (racial centers anyone?) thats not what I'm saying. I'm saying that the setting is a guide nothing more. If you limit yourself to exactly what it says you will be severly limiting your own ability to roleplay not to mention seting yourself up for conflicts of interpitation.

[Karyuu]

The settings aren't out of date. They just aren't completely filled in when it comes to public info. Racial centers do not imply racism, for example.

[Hatchnet]

And yet Karyuu if there are no dificulties why have them? Why segrigate yourselves?

[Karyuu]

Because the races still have different cultural roots, arts, and lifestyles. It has nothing to do with segregation - just because a city may be built by Enkidukai, doesn't mean that no other race resides there.

[zanzibar]

Zanzibar the settings are a guide not the world. (That is the point I was trying to get across earlier) And in any world you will have lots and lots of bad apples (even in an idealic world such as plainshift). There are lots of incharacter reasons which fit well into the planeshift settingfor a human to dislike Enkis because they shed. To say that such a thing viloates the Planeshift setting is the same as saying that individuality and human nature viloate the setting. Though my main character has no problem with the other races I will never play him as if he is a cardboard cutout made to fit perfictly with what someone else says he should be.

What you're saying is that the settings need to be changed.

No Zanzibar, though the settings are out of date (racial centers anyone?) thats not what I'm saying. I'm saying that the setting is a guide nothing more. If you limit yourself to exactly what it says you will be severly limiting your own ability to roleplay not to mention seting yourself up for conflicts of interpitation.

I don't feel that the settings are very limiting, and I've played a bunch of RP games.  It isn't total freedom, but it's more than just a bunch of suggestions - it's a statement of the way things are.

[Hatchnet]

@Karyuu Realy is that all it is? Somehow I find that unlikely even in a "perfect" world. Hell even I find it hard to like my some of my fellow man simply because of some of the habbits they maintain. Do you realy think that a nonEnki who grew in up in an Enki house hold and had to constantly brush fur of of his things would want to live in around a large number of them?

Because the races still have different cultural roots, arts, and lifestyles. It has nothing to do with segregation - just because a city may be built by Enkidukai, doesn't mean that no other race resides there.

Karyuu I hope you realise that what you've just stated is in reality one of the biggest factors behind racial strife.

@Zanzibar I never said it was just a bunch of suggestions; I said it was a guide. It says what things should be what the general populace belives the world to be not what that world truely is. Also just because you don't feel it's limitimg does not give you the right to force it's limitations on others. You may have no interest in playing a character that stands out from the norm; I on the other hand have no interest in playing a charecter that conforms to the norm. In short Zanzibar the setting is not the world; it is a guide to the world. WE are the world

[Karyuu]

It says what things should be what the general populace belives the world to be not what that world truely is.

Mm... no, I don't think so. The settings describe the world as it is. And believe it or not, the players don't make the world - they fill it, but it's cut to a certain mold. You can certainly try to step out of it sometimes, but that mold is still there, because that's the design of the game. If it doesn't suit you, I wouldn't suggest trying to change the game itself.

Do you realy think that a nonEnki who grew in up in an Enki house hold and had to constantly brush fur of of his things would want to live in around a large number of them?

There are non-Enkidukai NPCs in Akkaio, and it's just a start. These are the settings - accept them a little, ey? :]

[zanzibar]

@Zanzibar I never said it was just a bunch of suggestions; I said it was a guide. It says what things should be what the general populace belives the world to be not what that world truely is. Also just because you don't feel it's limitimg does not give you the right to force it's limitations on others. You may have no interest in playing a character that stands out from the norm; I on the other hand have no interest in playing a charecter that conforms to the norm. In short Zanzibar the setting is not the world; it is a guide to the world. WE are the world

It's entirely possible to RP a character that sticks out from the norm while still adhering to the settings.

And no, "we" are not the world.  We are in a world constructed by the devs.

[Hatchnet]

If you truely belive they describe the world as it is lets take a look at it.

Nevertheless, the racial traditions are quite strong and evident, since they all arrived from distant different places not more than 700 years ago.

Kinda contradictory to this right here don't you think

Racial suspicion and hostility are completely unknown, given that the distances between cities are not great, and trades are a central part of Yliakum society.

Besides I never said that I didn't accept the setting, or that I was trying to change the game. Only that nothing you put in the setting can 100% reflect the reality of the world.

I think part of the problem here is that I tend to use words for their meanings and not for their synonyms which while they can have similar meanings often vary enough to cause more than a little confusion. Especialy if you to greatly assosiate the meaning of a synonym to another word (sadly happens a great deal in this age of slang)

Zanzibar I disagree. The world may have been created to a certain extent by the devs, but the world is truely made up of those who live within it. It is a "mold" as Karyuu put it, but by necesity it must be a maleable one.

[Karyuu]

I don't really see the contradiction in those quotes - but it's rather late here, so I could very well be missing something. Regardless, can you elaborate on that, just for my sake?

I get the feeling that you mean to say that they are mutually exclusive - and I don't see it as so.

[zanzibar]

We can have our own culture and traditions...

...yet at the same time live in peace with one another.


It is possible.

[Hatchnet]

I don't really see the contradiction in those quotes - but it's rather late here, so I could very well be missing something. Regardless, can you elaborate on that, just for my sake?

I get the feeling that you mean to say that they are mutually exclusive - and I don't see it as so.

Ahh but the reality of it is that it is so. Or more simply put racial traditions can and most likely will conflict with each other. So can and do social traditions. Why do you think after all this time (far longer than Yliakum has had) we still have so many prevelent racial and social problems.

@Zanzibar not realy. It often requires far more in the way of compromise than the majority are willing to give.