Author Topic: The grand balance of good vs evil  (Read 14093 times)

Hatchnet

  • Hydlaa Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 499
    • View Profile
Re: The grand balance of good vs evil
« Reply #120 on: June 04, 2006, 10:34:31 pm »
Zanzibar you seem to see the Setting as an absolute set in stone. It is not and can never be so. Further more just as you claim others are useing the fact that it is a guid and nothing more as an excuse to Rp however they want. You are useing your claim that it is absolute to justify your attempts to tell others how to play.

The main crux of this that this is a changeing world. Things happen people happen. Yes as Karyuu has said we must have respect for the settings and take them into consideration both when we make our characters as well as when we play them. This does not mean that we can't play a character who does not like Dwarves for their surly attitude. All it means is that we can not roleplay as if everybody dislikes Dwarves for their surly attitude.

zorbels

  • Forum Addict
  • *
  • Posts: 2132
  • Screenshot Queen of PS - EX GM - Strawberries <3
    • View Profile
Re: The grand balance of good vs evil
« Reply #121 on: June 04, 2006, 10:36:27 pm »
Zanzibar I disagree. The world may have been created to a certain extent by the devs, but the world is truely made up of those who live within it. It is a "mold" as Karyuu put it, but by necesity it must be a maleable one.

I see your point and partially agree. There really isn't one without the other. The devs can create the game but in the end without players to keep the world turning for lack of a better word, the world of Yliakum would be empty except for those devs who play it. On that same note .... the devs can also say that you wouldn't have the characters you have developed without the settings we give you to work with, or the items, or the in game events or the rules we have laided down. The players could say, without us writing ours stories, creating back grounds, spending hours in game and playing with the items this world ..... Yliakum wouldn't really exsist with life and the realisim you are trying to create. One needs the other to make this project sucessful. So in a sense it takes two to make it work.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Roleplaying an evil character

Playing an evil character is very hard to do from what I hear from a certain few I have had the pleasure of roleplaying with. I don't think the game is anywhere near the point where you can play evil (Not anyones fault really). There just isn't enough information and with easy access about this sort of topic. The best suggestion I can come up with from my own personal experience is this:

If you are going to roleplay an evil character make sure you are doing it with players in the game who understand the difference between roleplay and real life to start off with. Establish your character with friends aka enemies to start and those friends should be the first to stand up and say when a newbie is around that you are not truly that way behind the character but you are just playing an evil character. This way it sets an example for the new comer and they realise that it isn't just the evil character ok with this but that his friends aka enemies support him/her in this behavior. Then the new comer may not feel signaled out with the behavoir. People tend to accept what is if there are large amounts of people supporting it. Most people are sheep ... what can I say.

Second of all know when to stop being your bad self. If a newbie is taking serious offence then don't continue the roleplay. Send a /tell apologising and then make note of that person so that you don't have them involved in your roleplays until they get the understanding of how the world works. Once that is accomplished then maybe invited them to roleplay with you again. I have watched evil character just push and prod a person and not quit. It surprises me that this evil character is shocked when reported.

Evil characters CAN petition too. If you have explained to a newbie that you were just in character and that you meant no offence and they still follow you around and get on your case, well you do have the right to complain about that as it is harrassment. This will aviod your hand getting smacked by a GM as they will have the information that this "good" character is just taking things out of context.

Be willing to accept that you will not be everyones favorite person if you decide to play evil. Don't be surprised if you walk into the tavern and are ignored because you have a rep for being MR bad. Also be willing to accept the game doesn't seem to accommodate at this point evil characters, so there is going to be complications with certain situations. Don't bring it to the forums and freak out if you run into this problem. Instead think about the problem and bring it to the forums worded in a way that you explain the problem and your ideas on how to fix it, or your lack of ideas but that you just wanted to point out the problem.

Understand that evil just isn't stealing or cusing someone out or just being a jack ass. An evil character could be the best friend beside you who seems loyal and trust worthy but is spying on your guild and taking the information to your enemies. I would give more example but at the moment I can't think of any.

Over all playing evil should be fun. If it starts to become a big thing and you have a horde of ticked off people chasing you but you are in real life irritated and just want to be left alone .... well that is why we have a choice to have different character. Take a step away from the computer or log on as someone else and deal with the situation when you and others have calmed down. Trying to deal with people angry won't accomplish much and will just be irritating in the end.

I think this was probably one of the longest posts I ever did. Anyway I hope some of what I have posted will help. :)
   I've been outside, it's overrated and the graphics suck!

Tzur

  • Traveller
  • *
  • Posts: 13
    • View Profile
Re: The grand balance of good vs evil
« Reply #122 on: June 05, 2006, 08:11:31 pm »
Ahh.. the debate of good and evil eh?

It gets real interesting when you notice it's not a two-sided coin you're looking at, but a sphere with an infinite number of sides - It's all perspective.

The way I see it. Your character would have to be able to identify themself as something horrible in order to play a truely 'evil' character(a pickpocket that lothes their work, an assassin that feels guilty/remorse, a 'holy' crusader disillusioned by doubt, etc.). I'm not sure I want to touch the popular = good/disliked = bad arguement though. =P

The real problem here seems to be lack of ability to perform certain actions(or maturity to accept them). /shrug



I really have been away too long. <_<
Guiding Spirit for:
Y\'dalzyn the Ynnwn lost soul.

zanzibar

  • Forum Legend
  • *
  • Posts: 6523
    • View Profile
Re: The grand balance of good vs evil
« Reply #123 on: June 05, 2006, 08:14:34 pm »
The way I see it. Your character would have to be able to identify themself as something horrible in order to play a truely 'evil' character(a pickpocket that lothes their work, an assassin that feels guilty/remorse, a 'holy' crusader disillusioned by doubt, etc.). I'm not sure I want to touch the popular = good/disliked = bad arguement though. =P


I disagree.  There are many people in the world who do evil things without thinking that they're doing evil things.
Quote from: Raa
Immaturity is FTW.

Pestilence

  • Hydlaa Notable
  • *
  • Posts: 872
    • View Profile
Re: The grand balance of good vs evil
« Reply #124 on: June 06, 2006, 05:11:31 am »
Zanzibar you seem to see the Setting as an absolute set in stone. It is not and can never be so. Further more just as you claim others are useing the fact that it is a guid and nothing more as an excuse to Rp however they want. You are useing your claim that it is absolute to justify your attempts to tell others how to play.

The main crux of this that this is a changeing world. Things happen people happen. Yes as Karyuu has said we must have respect for the settings and take them into consideration both when we make our characters as well as when we play them. This does not mean that we can't play a character who does not like Dwarves for their surly attitude. All it means is that we can not roleplay as if everybody dislikes Dwarves for their surly attitude.

The setting IS set in stone. Ofcourse things will be able to change over time and ofcourse the setting isn't perfect yet but we aren't here just to test the gamemechanics. We are also here to help the devs build the RP setting and test the setting as it is today.

OK why is the setting set in stone? Becuase the setting is what makes roleplaying roleplaying. You play a character that fits in the setting. You don't alter the setting to fit the character.

An example of what this means in my opinon. One Dwarvesbane members had in her description that a dwarvenparty raided her town and used them as slaves. This is why she hates dwarves. Where does this not go with the setting.
1. Not impossible but very unlikely that bands like that would be only dwarves. There might be some towns that are mostly one race, but to have a band like that consist of just one race is not in the spirit of the setting.
2. There is no hate between races says the setting. So that a person would hate those dwarves wouldn't be fitting. Being cautious around dwarves in general even likely, but hate you are leaving the setting again in my opinon. Specially seeing the events are in your history so not a change made by roleplaying.

With many things you have a choice, but the setting makes us all live in the same world and that sometimes means you can't chose how your character will react in a certain situation if you roleplay well, becuase the setting has already chosen this for you.

This ofcourse is my opinion ;)
« Last Edit: June 06, 2006, 05:16:29 am by Pestilence »

Hatchnet

  • Hydlaa Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 499
    • View Profile
Re: The grand balance of good vs evil
« Reply #125 on: June 06, 2006, 05:35:28 am »
That is of course your opinion, and while I will agree that that particular persons reason for hateing dwarves is a bit overboard givin what the setting says, you may want to reread the entire setting. Includeing the race descriptions.

O and the bigest reason I say that the setting is not set in stone is not individuality (though that is a big one), but that all things change over time.

zanzibar

  • Forum Legend
  • *
  • Posts: 6523
    • View Profile
Re: The grand balance of good vs evil
« Reply #126 on: June 06, 2006, 06:56:18 am »
That is of course your opinion, and while I will agree that that particular persons reason for hateing dwarves is a bit overboard givin what the setting says, you may want to reread the entire setting. Includeing the race descriptions.

O and the bigest reason I say that the setting is not set in stone is not individuality (though that is a big one), but that all things change over time.



It really seems like you're reaching here.

The devs have told us to respect the settings.  So why shouldn't we respect the settings?  Because we don't feel like it?
Quote from: Raa
Immaturity is FTW.

ou8i8uo

  • Hydlaa Resident
  • *
  • Posts: 152
  • =^.^=
    • View Profile
Re: The grand balance of good vs evil
« Reply #127 on: June 06, 2006, 07:04:56 am »
Well you know, if we adhered strictly to the settings, Enki males would always be fighting for leadership of a pack or guild and they would all be in packs and logic dictates that if they are, then they would have less contact with the other races.
This is just one example I am sure more can be found.

zanzibar

  • Forum Legend
  • *
  • Posts: 6523
    • View Profile
Re: The grand balance of good vs evil
« Reply #128 on: June 06, 2006, 07:21:07 am »
Well you know, if we adhered strictly to the settings, Enki males would always be fighting for leadership of a pack or guild and they would all be in packs and logic dictates that if they are, then they would have less contact with the other races.
This is just one example I am sure more can be found.


No.  The only ones that would fight for leadership would be the ones interested in leadership enough to fight for it.
Quote from: Raa
Immaturity is FTW.

Tzur

  • Traveller
  • *
  • Posts: 13
    • View Profile
Re: The grand balance of good vs evil
« Reply #129 on: June 06, 2006, 07:55:38 am »
I disagree.  There are many people in the world who do evil things without thinking that they're doing evil things.

This, of course, is by your standard of evil.  ;)
Guiding Spirit for:
Y\'dalzyn the Ynnwn lost soul.

zanzibar

  • Forum Legend
  • *
  • Posts: 6523
    • View Profile
Re: The grand balance of good vs evil
« Reply #130 on: June 06, 2006, 08:06:07 am »
I disagree.  There are many people in the world who do evil things without thinking that they're doing evil things.

This, of course, is by your standard of evil.  ;)


Hurting people, stealing, senseless acts of destruction, malice towards others, violent intolerance... etcetera.  The definition of "evil" isn't something easily put into words.

I would hope that you're just trying to be cute by suggesting that the definition of evil is subjective.  It would be unfortunate if you were trying to insult me by saying that my definition of evil is deviant.
Quote from: Raa
Immaturity is FTW.

Janner

  • Hydlaa Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 315
    • View Profile
Re: The grand balance of good vs evil
« Reply #131 on: June 06, 2006, 08:28:08 am »
 Just wont to throw in a new twist to this fascinating topic. The history is up to this point, but we all know things change.

 As Rome was mentioned lets give that as a example of what i mean. I saw the Romans as a brutal conquering race who took great pleaser in slavery and brutal deaths.[gladiators, that sort of thing in arena]

 Look at them today Italy, very different from what I just described. Yet the same race.
Glad to help.

Karyuu

  • Forum Legend
  • *
  • Posts: 9341
    • View Profile
Re: The grand balance of good vs evil
« Reply #132 on: June 06, 2006, 09:06:29 am »
Romans aren't a race.. :P

Satayne is right - Enkidukai, and nearly every other race, don't currently act as they should. That is because there isn't enough information -in the game itself- at the moment, nor a lot of content, to help players when acting out their characters. And as I think I mentioned earlier, with more information and further development of the game, roleplay will have to adjust until it fits the setting closer and closer. But that adaptation is inevitable.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2006, 09:08:03 am by Karyuu »
Judge: Are you trying to show contempt for this court, Mr Smith?
Smith: No, My Lord. I am attempting to conceal it.

Janner

  • Hydlaa Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 315
    • View Profile
Re: The grand balance of good vs evil
« Reply #133 on: June 06, 2006, 09:22:50 am »
Romans aren't a race.. :P
That's it, ignore the point I was making and pedantically point out a small discrepancy of definition.
Glad to help.

zanzibar

  • Forum Legend
  • *
  • Posts: 6523
    • View Profile
Re: The grand balance of good vs evil
« Reply #134 on: June 06, 2006, 09:30:10 am »
Romans aren't a race.. :P
That's it, ignore the point I was making and pedantically point out a small discrepancy of definition.


Even if you meant "society" instead of race, you'd still be off the mark.  The Italians live in the same geographical location as the Romans, but it's not the same society.  A lot of time and history has gone by, many Empires have come and gone.  The land has been conquered and reconquered.
Quote from: Raa
Immaturity is FTW.