Transhumanism

[operand]

Hello, all. I'm not sure how many of you are familiar with the concept of transhumanity. Most people, mainly young people who are technophiles, have transhumanist beliefs but aren't aware of that. Perhaps there are some transhumanists on this board. If not, get informed, and tell me what you think. I am following this movement for some time and am interessted in your opinions.

Here are some links:

The world transhumanist association: www.transhumanism.org
Wikipedia entry on human enchancement: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_enhancement_technologies
Incipient Posthuman website: www.incipientposthuman.com
the Better humans website: www.betterhumans.com
Ray Kurzweil website with many articles to read: www.kurzweilai.net

[Xordan]

Yeah, I've been aware of things like this happening. I know that there's this professor in nottingham (I think it's nottingham) university who's really into artificial human enhancement. He has all kinds of cool implants. Personally, if it can be done and I need it, then I see no problems with it.

[operand]

Are you talking about Kevin Warwick? He's a professor from England who's had a few chips implanted in his arm. Another well-known "cyborg" professor is Steve Mann. He's working on wearable computers and has a really neat eye display called EyeTap (check it out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eyetap). Augmented reality thanks to such devices is here, the next step is full virtual reality; meaning we can have PlaneShift downloaded directly into our brains .

[Wired_Crawler]

Those things are unavoidable IMO. Whether it will be legal or not, whether it will be considered moral or not, people will use technology to enchance their abilities. I think it is only matter of time. I don't know, if I will be still alive when those technologies will become part of everyday life, in any case I have nothing against it (even if it won't be used only for good).
Would I make use of new possibilities ? It's hard to say. Depends on risk level, depends on my needs, depends on benefits, depends on ... price (yes, money, as always, are important ). Curently I don't feel any need to apply artificial improvements to my body and mind, however the number of informations to process is bigger and bigger... world is changing so fast, time is shrinking. At some point even most advaced cell phone may be not enough to stay connected to the rest of society .
And I like gadgets, like many other people

On the other hand - why am I playing game, which allows me to transfer to medieval world ? Is it a yearning for for pure, imperfect humanity ?

[operand]

Hmm, interesting statement. In my opinion we aren't playing medieval games because we long for such a past (people also play futuristic games and games that take place in the present). Instead we are willing to
transfer our existance in other worlds thus forgetting the real one. It has always been the case- people have always read books, watched plays, listened to music...
Also, you mentioned money, the goal of transhumanism is to ensure that the technology is available to everyone, everywhere and to prevent it's misuse.
You don't feel the need today to improve yourself? You don't want to be smarter, healthier (physically and mentally), more powerful?
Sure, most people today don't feel the urge to be enchanced (although there is quite alot of plastic surgery going on), but in the future it will most probably change since everyone will be "upgrading" themselves.

Just my view...

[Alfonso Knaf]

Why in the principle I can't see anything bad about it, its like every other technologie...
Of course you have to talk about the boundaries of this stuff, but in general...
But in the Wikipedia artikel antidepressants are also listed as enhancements... well this is kind of strange and shows that the definition is quite unclear. If antidepressants count, then nearly every medicin should count...

[Karyuu]

I'm absolutely fascinated by this topic :} Thanks for bringing it up, and posting those links.

I think it's a world I would dive into at full speed.

[Kiern]

Though I think that type of thing should be legal (as long as it's voluntary and the risks are known), I would never be involved with it personally.  I just don't believe in it...I'm even cautious about taking any medicine.  Basically anything that can force me to rely on it, I'm against.  It seems to me it would be way too easy to lose your control over these things.  Though I guess I'm going to be in the far minority here..

[ThomPhoenix]

I think transhumanism is great, I wouldn't take it as far as say the Borg, but it has some nice applications. Only a few days ago in my country doctors performed an experimental operation onto a deaf person which made him hear again. They implanted a device right into his cerebral cortex and implanted a microphone onto his skull. This is great because n no medicine can replace an entire ear and it's nerve.

[Kixie]

Though I think that type of thing should be legal (as long as it's voluntary and the risks are known), I would never be involved with it personally.  I just don't believe in it...I'm even cautious about taking any medicine.  Basically anything that can force me to rely on it, I'm against.  It seems to me it would be way too easy to lose your control over these things.  Though I guess I'm going to be in the far minority here..

Actually, I think you're going to be in the majority here. I myself agree fullheartily, mainly for the fact that most people rely on medicine too much nowadays. They don't see the side effects as something dangrous or important, when they should be. People use medicine to fix things that can be cured with hard work, and they also use medicine to fix things I don't think should be fixed in my opinion.

Another reason why implants and modifications are big, is the applications into superhuman ability. I don't agree with any of it at all. I enjoy being natural, and my limitations make me who I am just as much as my abilities do. There's something very dangerous in dabbling with the human power.

I'm neither religious, nor extremely philosophical, but I know what isn't right. Frankly, I don't think any of this is right.

But, I must say that I'm not stopping anyone. Just don't force it on me.

[Xordan]

I wouldn't take it as far as say the Borg,

Agreed. That's the bad side of technology. We need to use such things with restraint. Anything which enhances, prolongs life, prevents illness is good. Anything that takes away our humanity is bad.

People also need to remember that however much we improve ourselves using technology, our intellegence (and other attributes) will stay the same in comparison to other people who do the same things. People will never be equal. Some might argue that your intellegence would stay the same no matter what enhancment you did to yourself.

I would also like to lower the tone of the topic and say that some parts of me need no enhancement

[Nividia Stormlance]

Though I think that type of thing should be legal (as long as it's voluntary and the risks are known), I would never be involved with it personally.  I just don't believe in it...I'm even cautious about taking any medicine.  Basically anything that can force me to rely on it, I'm against.  It seems to me it would be way too easy to lose your control over these things.  Though I guess I'm going to be in the far minority here..

Actually, I think you're going to be in the majority here. I myself agree fullheartily, mainly for the fact that most people rely on medicine too much nowadays. They don't see the side effects as something dangrous or important, when they should be. People use medicine to fix things that can be cured with hard work, and they also use medicine to fix things I don't think should be fixed in my opinion.

Another reason why implants and modifications are big, is the applications into superhuman ability. I don't agree with any of it at all. I enjoy being natural, and my limitations make me who I am just as much as my abilities do. There's something very dangerous in dabbling with the human power.

I'm neither religious, nor extremely philosophical, but I know what isn't right. Frankly, I don't think any of this is right.

But, I must say that I'm not stopping anyone. Just don't force it on me.

I dont fully agree with you.. Currently the bigger gun you got the stronger you are,, iran soon got atomic bombs,, but i wont do anything to myself to make me stronger in any way unless it is higly neccesary

[Kiern]

I dont fully agree with you.. Currently the bigger gun you got the stronger you are,, iran soon got atomic bombs,, but i wont do anything to myself to make me stronger in any way unless it is higly neccesary

I don't understand how being stronger or winning has anything to do with morals.  Don't expect any sort of argument from me, though, I feel this is the same as arguing religions.

[Wired_Crawler]

You don't feel the need today to improve yourself? You don't want to be smarter, healthier (physically and mentally), more powerful?

Yes, I want it, who doesn't ? But I'm sure, I know it, that I could achieve above goals without changing into transhuman. I could be stronger, faster, smarter, I could improve my memory and my senses using traditional methods (and I'm lucky because I'm healthy). However, "old-fashioned" training is rather slow, it requires a high determination and readiness for many self-deprivations. And here comes technology, which can fulfill your desires...without effort... It's tempting, isn't it ?

And about longing for primitive life - probably I would like to enhance some of my abilities, but I want to retain my imperfect perception:

• I want to listen to birds' songs, I want to listen as wind blows, I want to listen as raindrops knock the window, I don't want to analyze amplitude and frequency of air waves.
• I want to touch the leaves, I want to touch the skin, I want to feel the world around me, I don't want to analyze materials and their molecular structure.
• I want to have memories in my mind, which are associated with feelings, I don't want to store gigabytes of pictures and videos in my brain.
• I want to smell flowers, I want to smell soil, I want to taste water, I don't want to analyze their chemical ingredients
• I want to feel the warm of sunrays, I want to look at all those colors around, I don't want to analyze spectrum of electromagnetic waves.

I think now it is clear enough ;)

Karyuu, I'm quite surprised that You are so enthusiastic about this topic :o.
Karyuu, is it You ? What have You done to You ?! You have changed... ->

;)

If you like to get a prewiew, how the world filled with transhumans could look like, read the manga "Battle Angel Alita". Or watch "Ghost in the Shell" (2 movies and 2 tv series). Those worlds attract me, and at the same time I'm afraid of them...
As You can see, I'm undecided (but I sustain my words: it will be part of our lives some day, and I have no objections).

Wait. I lied a little.
I would like to replace my... teeth ;)

[Nividia Stormlance]

I dont fully agree with you.. Currently the bigger gun you got the stronger you are,, iran soon got atomic bombs,, but i wont do anything to myself to make me stronger in any way unless it is higly neccesary

I don't understand how being stronger or winning has anything to do with morals.  Don't expect any sort of argument from me, though, I feel this is the same as arguing religions.

I mean making improvement on people making them sing better, jump higher, run faster ect. ect.