Name System v2

[Kerol]

As GM, one is confronted all day with improper names, just silly stuff and other appearant violations of the naming policy. Most people however overlook that the naming system itself is getting more and more inadequate for the growing numbers of players and characters.
This post is how to improve the name system itself, NOT the naming rules.

The alphabet has 26 characters. A good forename has about 5 characters. 26^5 = 1188376 possible names (not regarding the forbidden names, repeating characters, unpronouncable names etc.). At this moment we have 246262 accounts on laanx. This number * 4 (possible chars per account) = 985048.
By that simple calculation, leaving out all the restrictions, limiting the number of "good" names considerably, it is more than obvious that the current naming system is getting towards it's limits.
As PS grows each day in numbers of new players, the need for new names grows. With this system it is only doable to increase the number of allowed names by increasing either
- the number of possible characters in the alphabet
- increasing the length of the names
- allow formerly forbidden names (by changing the rules)

The first cannot considered seriously as it is not easy to type foreign characters on european keyboards, for instance.
The last is not an option as it is unlikely that they will be changed. Besides that, allowing banned names would only have a minor impact on the number of valid names.
So only the second variable is an option. This however is not limitless. In RL, a name with 8 characters or more is simply not practical.

A reworked system would have to increase the number of valid names by a linear factor or even exponential.

I propose following changes:

1. allow multiple same forenames by adding a (I), (II), (III) after the forename in /who and buddylist, indicating the registering of the names in the time flow.
2. allow middle name(s). Two or more forenames seperated by space could be handled as one internally. It would show up in /who and buddylist as one big forename,
but name completion would only complete the first forename.
3. to have a possible "location field", similar to medieval names like "Fred of the field". One could implement that in the CC (charcreation) by giving a list of possible locations in Yliakum and letting the player choose the location of birth. If a location was chosen, it may show up as addition to the name in the chardesc (not on the label, see below), but as additional information for the players by /who for instance, and the system, in order to allow multiple forenames, but with different birthlocations and keeping names unique.

I also propose a change in the naming system that won't multiply the number of valid names, but won't affect the number of valid names either and will probably solve the ever ongoing question if one should have a birthname as name on the label or whether nicknames for labels are allowed.
The solution is to have both, a birthname as required unique identifier and an optional nickname that mustn't be unique.
As stated above, the birthname may be pretty long, including birth location, multiple forenames or even a latin number as counter for the occurance.
If that all were implemented, it would be overkill to have all that in the labels. That's also why I propose to have a nickname that will be shown in the label.
As implementation, there could be an optional nickname-field in the CC in which the player may initially enter his wished nickname, apart from the birthname.

The above may be sufficient for solving the problem with the number of valid names and also solving the nickname-birthname problem. Related to that, but not about the problem above is my following proposal about the buddylist (BL) system:

A long wanted feature is a mirrored file containing the BL that is being stored on client side, not only on server side. Initially, those two files must only contain the birthnames as identifyer.
The birthname list on the client gets synched with each login.
The file (or another file, refering to the mirrored file) on the client side may contain the initial nicknames.
The BL shows only the nicknames in that file. Rightclick on a buddy may open the option to change the shown nick. Changing the nickname that way would only affect the local client. However, there could be a built-in routine to check each time a new label pops up if the player is already in the BL and if yes, then show the custom nickname also on the label.

This way it would be possible to modify the nicknames offline, have custom nicknames with each character/installation but not having the disadvantage of a client-side only BL. This solution wouldn't require additional space on the server neither.

I hope I wasn't too confusing

[Karyuu]

The cries of "all the good names are taken" have been shouted since MB, but we've 2 or 3 or 4 or more times as many characters now, and I don't see any problems.

Most people however overlook that the naming system itself is getting more and more inadequate for the growing numbers of players and characters.

People aren't limited to 5 letters per name, and I don't think we're approaching any limit at all.

1. allow multiple same forenames by adding a (I), (II), (III) after the forename in /who and buddylist, indicating the registering of the names in the time flow.

How many of the same multiples? Unlimited? Would people have to type /tell Johnny2055 to send a tell? What if five Johnny's get together in a tavern and have a chat, how would you understand and keep up with which character said what? This suggestion is ignoring all of the discussions that have ever taken place concerning the issue of nonunique first names.

I like the nickname suggestion - but if all the "real" names of characters must be unique anyway, this isn't really solving the "problem" you wanted to bring up. Nor does this address the chat system issue, again, if multiple nonunique nicknames are talking in the same place at the same time.

I am strictly against displaying any numbers by names, whether roman numerals or not.

[zanzibar]

There are plenty of good names with more than 5 characters.  Just with 6 characters, 26^6 is 30897776, or thirty times the total number of names that would be taken if every current account had four characters.

[Kerol]

How many of the same multiples? Unlimited? Would people have to type /tell Johnny2055 to send a tell? What if five Johnny's get together in a tavern and have a chat, how would you understand and keep up with which character said what? This suggestion is ignoring all of the discussions that have ever taken place concerning the issue of nonunique first names.

I like the nickname suggestion - but if all the "real" names of characters must be unique anyway, this isn't really solving the "problem" you wanted to bring up. Nor does this address the chat system issue, again, if multiple nonunique nicknames are talking in the same place at the same time.

I am strictly against displaying any numbers by names, whether roman numerals or not.

The first you address is the counting in birthnames. On that, I agree. If only one of the two other methods (birthlocation or middle name) were implemented, there would be no need to count (while the birthlocation could be regarded as method to count).

If you have non-unique nicknames, on the other hand, it is necessary to have a counter. That shouldn't be a problem, though, as you can change each nickname you come across, privately. When a Johnny28 /tells you the first time, you see "johnny28 tells..". You change the nickname shown to you to "moron12" and reply /tell moron12 .. . The other person only gets "Karyuu tells you..." .
If you have, let's say five people in the tavern who chose all "johnny" as nickname its a similar problem as in RL. You either can have /say using the birthname as default ("yes you, johnny muller; not you, johnny becker"), or one could use the targetting feature in the way most newbies think it works. Many think (me included when I started) that the color in say convos get blue when someone has you targetted, and not because someone mentions your name.

There are plenty of good names with more than 5 characters.  Just with 6 characters, 26^6 is 30897776, or thirty times the total number of names that would be taken if every current account had four characters.

I have a book with "official" german names. I guess that there are maybe one million names in that book, but not much more. And those are all common names in Germany, including the lengthy ones (up to 9 or 10 characters). In PS you shouldn't have names that obviously are related to RL, ruling out a whole lot of possible names.
Of course common names like Johnny aren't forbidden, but they aren't considered as good PS names, neither. If one only regards the good PS names, one has to subtract from the whole possibilities:
- all the compound words (names including words that are used in sentences, like verbs),
- all swearing words of course,
- all firm names and
- abbreviations
- RL names and
- all the names that somehow include a word from above as they could be seen as compounds.

For example "ass" is forbidden as name. Taking the given from above into account, that rules out every word with more than 3 letters _containing_ that word. Like assel, assassine, rassel, tasse (german word for cup), mass.. and so forth. I'm only saying that raising the number of letters in a name isn't automatically raising the number of possible valid names exponentially.

[Karyuu]

I still don't see us running out of names, and I don't understand your suggestions for addressing the nonunique names in the same place issue. Maybe you can explain this particular point in better detail?

Also keep in mind that last names are -not- a requirement. Thus you could have five people named nothing but Johnny in the tavern, one of them says something that requires a /report, and then the system goes wonky, right?

Maybe we can "clean out" barely used names - recycle them, so to speak. If a character has been used for under an hour and hasn't logged in for half a year, they'd be gone. Or similar, the details can be fine-tuned. That would make a lot more names available - though again, I don't see us having any problems right now or in the future.

We don't rule out RL names, and we don't change them. Nor do we change words that have meanings in languages other than English, unless the words are reported and checked for being offensive.

[neko kyouran]

Many think (me included when I started) that the color in say convos get blue when someone has you targetted, and not because someone mentions your name.

For example "ass" is forbidden as name. Taking the given from above into account, that rules out every word with more than 3 letters _containing_ that word. Like assel, assassine, rassel, tasse (german word for cup), mass.. and so forth. I'm only saying that raising the number of letters in a name isn't automatically raising the number of possible valid names exponentially.

1)  me too.
2)  just becuase it has the word ass in the middle of the name doesn't automatically make it non useable.

[Kerol]

I don't understand your suggestions for addressing the nonunique names in the same place issue. Maybe you can explain this particular point in better detail?

You talk to an NPC by target/select him/her and just type in /say. Many think that highlighting a message in /say to players works the same way, by selecting the player.
One could have, for instance green, highlighting by selection (additionally to mentioning the name).
This mechanic would be independant of the name of the target, therefore be a solution to the problem of having multiple same names in one place.

Thus you could have five people named nothing but Johnny in the tavern, one of them says something that requires a /report, and then the system goes wonky, right?

No, not the way I proposed. The system internally would work with the complete name (except maybe the family name, but taking the additions to the forename) as identifier, not just with a single forename. Externally you wouldn't see much of that. The nicknames always have a clear reference to only one identifier. Although the nicknames may vary from client to client, the reference always stays the same.

For example, you have Johnny I, Johnny II and Johnny III in the tavern. EAch of them would have chosen "Johnny" as nick in the CC. The system adds automatically the number in the order of occurance. If you want to /report Johnny III, it checks your BL if the nick is listed there, but no it isn't, therefore taking the initial nickname (that is being listed on the server) and refers to "Abrah Blab of Hydlaa" as unique identifier.
If you encountered Johnny II already and chose to give him (privately) the nickname moron5, and you want to /report this guy now, you have to type /report moron5. The system checks if he is in your BL, finds it there and refers to the same "Abrah Blab of Hydlaa", although he has (for you) not the same nickname as he has for everyone else.

We don't rule out RL names, and we don't change them. Nor do we change words that have meanings in languages other than English, unless the words are reported and checked for being offensive.

I was talking about good PS names Only because they are allowed, it doesn't mean that they are good.
And yes, only because a word as "ass" in it, doesn't make it automatically bad. However, if you knew how many compound words are tried that way, you'd be amazed


Edit: I'm not fan of having numbers in nicknames neither. Numbers should only be added by the system, automatically, if ever. "moron5" was just an example, the "5" shouldn't be possible. Sorry, it's getting late

[Karyuu]

I don't understand how you would /report Johnny III if you don't have any of them on your buddy list.

Anyway, it seems overly complicated and unnecessary to me.

[Kerol]

I don't understand how you would /report Johnny III if you don't have any of them on your buddy list.

I don't get what is so complicated about that.. You see the name Johnny III as nick on the label.
The moment someone chooses a nickname on the CC the system checks if another Johny exists and adds the appropriate number.
However, maybe it is really easier to have unique nicknames.. but then it will be somewhat more difficult to have costumizable nicknames on client side, which I find a unique feature that no game has that I can think of.. and it isn't really that complicated to implement that. I could write an implementation in pseudo-code for you, if you like

[Karyuu]

Did I mention that I am strictly against seeing any numbers for player name labels?

No way - this will never fly. Just because you see "III" instead of "3" by someone's name doesn't make the system any more appealing.

[Kerol]

OK, alternatively to numbers one could restrict the number of same nicknames on the locations added to the birthname.
If the system detects a duplicated nickname it would automatically add to the next johnny(ies) the location of birth he gave in the CC. That would make it in our example a Johnny, Johnny of Hydlaa and a Johnny of Ojaveda.

[neko kyouran]

And what happens when 2 people both want johnny and are both born in hydlaa?

[Karyuu]

And in the chat you would constantly see "Johnny of Hydlaa says:"? And there can only be one Johnny of Hydlaa? And if you would only see "Johnny" in the chat, again how would you do a /report if all the different Johnnys from all the different regions came together, and one of them says something inappropriate?

*edit*

Moreover, what if our Johnny doesn't want to be in Hydlaa? What if he has a past that doesn't include any of the game regions? What if he "shifted" from another plane? What if he doesn't want any regions attached at all?

[Kerol]

And what happens when 2 people both want johnny and are both born in hydlaa?

Then a popup opens in the CC "invalid nickname", similar to how it is now.

Moreover, what if our Johnny doesn't want to be in Hydlaa? What if he has a past that doesn't include any of the game regions? What if he "shifted" from another plane? What if he doesn't want any regions attached at all?

Then he must be the first Johnny that gets registered. Only the first doesn't get the addition.

Johnnys from all the different regions came together, and one of them says something inappropriate?

Same as before: You state the nickname, the system checks to which birthname it is linked and uses the birthname as identifier and target for commands like /report.

"Johnny of Hydlaa says:"

Too tired to think of a better solution for shorting the line.. so coming from the given above, it would have to look like this, yes.

[Loto]

What if you just make it so everyone has to be a first and a last name? Wouldn't that solve the problem