An end to NPC hogs

[Eliseth]

Hello everyone

I have a small suggestion I would like to make. The other day I logged in and went to the arena, I found a Klyro there by the first merchant. Now thats all good and well, but I returned literally a few hours (6-8) later to find him STILL at the merchant. I think this is called powerlevelling no?

I don't know about everyone else, but I find this sort of thing particularly annoying. Firstly, its so boring, secondly, it defeats the whole purpose of PS and lastly it's stupid. Now I don't have a problem if they kill the same NPC for a few time to get some xp, but seriously... 8 hours of the same NPC is a bit much.

My suggestion: just put a limit on the amount of times you can kill the same NPC in a row. For example, a person kills a NPC, after 3 times a message some up saying "You can't attack the same NPC for more than 3 times" or something. I think it will force the players to be a bit more active and not stand in one place the whole day gaining pps.

One can even expand it a little to limit the amount of times you can kill the same NPC in one log in sessions.

Just a thought ^_^

[neko kyouran]

1)  Who made you in charge of other peoples ability to play a game as they want to play it?
2)  They are not doing you any harm, so I see no reason why they can't go on thier merry way.
3)  You may find it boring, but to some people that is fun.
4)  Concentrate on yourself, and don't worry about what others do.  You'll be happier that way.
5)  As a general rule, use serach button.

Thanky.

[Karyuu]

Where is the realism to being limited to attack an NPC only a certain amount of times?

We're going to try to prevent spawn camping in the near future by expanding on NPC behavior and getting rid of static spawn points. It'll be much more realistic - that way people will have to move around to catch their targets.

How do you know the person was killing the NPC for those 8 hours nonstop though? They could have taken a long break, and returned shortly before you did.

[TestLab]

We're going to try to prevent spawn camping in the near future by expanding on NPC behavior and getting rid of static spawn points. It'll be much more realistic - that way people will have to move around to catch their targets.

That sounds good

Could you plz, plz (pretty plz) not put RATS too far away. It's hard enough having to kill 10 million rats to get some skill (as a Noob with no experience). If you scatter them arround I'll take me 10 years before I'm on a decent level (And othe Noobs like me)

Cheers

[Eliseth]

I'm sorry  I really didn't mean to sound offensive or anything, it was just my opinion.

1) Who made you in charge of other peoples ability to play a game as they want to play it?
2) They are not doing you any harm, so I see no reason why they can't go on thier merry way.
3) You may find it boring, but to some people that is fun.
4) Concentrate on yourself, and don't worry about what others do. You'll be happier that way.
5) As a general rule, use serach button.

Thanky.

1) I just don't think that is playing the game. But you're right, I have no right to tell people what to do in game, sorry.
2) You're right there again
3) I don't think many people find it fun as such, they just want to level as much as possible, but there again, you could be right.
4) I'm very happy actually, its not that I get upset over it or anything, it was just a suggestion to alllow people to have even MORE fun in game.
5) I did ^^

Where is the realism to being limited to attack an NPC only a certain amount of times?

We're going to try to prevent spawn camping in the near future by expanding on NPC behavior and getting rid of static spawn points. It'll be much more realistic - that way people will have to move around to catch their targets.

How do you know the person was killing the NPC for those 8 hours nonstop though? They could have taken a long break, and returned shortly before you did.

Well I'm glad something like that has been planned, I suppose I overlooked the fact that everything is going to change over the years of developement.

Oh and I asked him, he told me he had been there all that time.

Thanks for the quick responses guys!

[neko kyouran]

I didn't mean to sound mean, did it come accross that way? Just trying to point out things from the other persons view.  No harm, no foul?  And the search, good to see you use it, I wasn't trying to imply you didn't, just as a general rule to all, use search buton. 

[Hadfael]

It all started a long long time ago. But you did not know. Today you saw something that amazed you.
A kran staying nights and days at the same place, killing the same monster each time he spawns, does not talk to anybody?
You have to understand the hard life of this poor kran.
Since the day he arrived in Yliakum he heard about strong creatures hidden behind the bronze gates. And he already had to find his way out of the death realm. He fears to return to this dark place. So he decided to be ready to face any danger. It became an obsession. Since that day, he decided to train...practice..train...
One day, a long long time ago, on his way to his uncle, he saw this rogue, ambushing travellers. "Give this mushroom of yours or I will kill you and take it!" said the rogue.
"Never!" answered the kran who was talkative back in those days.
A fight began. And the rogue was shortly lied in his own blood, biting the dust.
But the battle noise was heard in the rogue camp.
"Go and see what's Bob doing on the road!" said the rogues' captain to his newest recruit.
The kran was about to go on on his journey, holding his precisous mushroom and a brand new dagguer found on the dead body, when the new rogue arrived. Before he could see the blood stained floor he felt the kran's blade in his chest and fell on the floor.
"glad I did not go away" thought the kran "He would have ambushed the next innocent traveller".
So he decides to stay a bit and see if this second rogue had no friends around.
At the camp the captain is told that someone heard someone saying "ooch! that hurts" and recognized the voice of the recruit. So he decides to send another one.
"a Third one!" thought the kran while slashing him.
"four"..."five"..."five and one"..."five and two"...
At some point he lost the count.
And days went by, one rogue comming to see what the previous one was doing after another one...

Hours later you passed by, saw the kran facing the void with his weapons stained with blood.
"Greetings" you said...no reply...Only this kran staring at the void...waiting to see if the rogues' captain still have recruits to send. hoping to empty the rogues' camp.

Of course you did not know. You though he was camping here. So you thought something could be done to save him. But what will happen to him when the rogue camp will be empty? When the rogues are going to find another path to the road in order to spawn by surprise at a different place, what will he do? His only reason to live now is to kill, loot, sell, train, kill, loot, ...
He ate the mushroom a while ago, forgot about his uncle (who died from starvation anyway). Do not blame him. After all he keeps the road safe and will lose his reason to live as soon as the rogues won't spawn. Have pity and leave him to his doom. His days are counted. When the rogues camp will be empty he will look for another place to settle down, doing the same without noticing how his life can be an endless loop of awaitings...waiting for the next one to spawn...waiting...waiting while you had your life filled with joys.

Trying to save him would kill him. That's not what you want. Without him you could one day be on your way to your uncle, holding a mushroom...

[Seytra]

This is the very first time a spawn camper has ever created joy for me. Thanks to the unnamed camper, thanks to Eliseth for bringing this up, triggering the post by Hadfael for which I'm so greatful. It made my day, in fact.

Still, on less happy news, I am mostly in favor of the OP's view, because, in a way
1) the community as a whole is, just as it is IRL, in charge and required to police itself, to a certain degree. Social courage, encouraging the "correct" behaviour as defined by the community's ethics, and discouraging "wrong" behaviour, are part of this. Thus, every player is required to not only not violate the community's ethics (which is against PL), but to also try to ensure that others don't as well. Once a community starts implicitely condoning offenders by ignoring them (the "it's not my problem, let the authorities deal with it!" line o f thinking), the gap between population (playerbase) and authority (GMs) will start to widen as both authorities and population lose track of what the authorities are there for, resulting in a "community" where the players are viewed by the GMs as cattle and the GMs are viewed by the players as the oppressive establishment that must be tricked and subverted in any way possible. That will result in the authrities not deciding and doing what's best for the playerbase, but only for themselves, and the playerbase doing the same, driving this cycle further and further until corruption and crime (power abuse and cheating) are all that's left.

2) They are doing harm. Not directly, visible harm, but abstract, show-up-later harm. Degrading realism for everyone, inflating both economy as well as skills, taking up resources (bandwidth, MOBs) that therefore are unusable for players using PS the correct way, etc., pp.. Simply that they don't cause you to lose attributes or money or spam / hinder you does in no way mean that they don't cause harm.

3) This may be true, but while PS does give a certain degree of freedom to players, reducing it to that "fun" thing does arguably cross the line. As has been said, I think that the least of those who do that camping "fun" actually enjoy it, but even if, they should seriously consider a game more suited to them that does not have all the petty and useless features like a chat box, and in fact a movement system. Less bugs, more "fun"...

4) Indeed you will be, until everything you have constantly and blissfully ignored will have mounted so high that it suddenly rips open your eyes and forces you to see it. And that is when it's both too late and excessively painful, and it's the point where IRL the newspapers are full with headlines like "Why did noone see this coming? The signs were so clear!". So stop concentrating on yourself before everything you ignored starts concentrating on you.

Edit: This towards the original discussion; the foretold change in the system will remove some of the problem AFAICS, and it shows that this sort of "fun" is not what PS is intended to be used for.

Edit 2: minor clarification

[Hadfael]

Seytra 4 - spawn campers 0

More seriously, and to some back to the proposal that started this thread (this is the wishlist after all)...
A great number of pple (including myself) did already pointed the fact that spawn camping is a problem.
Allowing any mindless player to ignore RP in order to lvlup ends with highly trained chars unable to RP but able to duel others with no other motivate than their personal "fun". I think that's why the "search" button is now a default answer to any "wish list" thread dealing with spawn camping.
Not sure a "search" would return many "Limit number of same mob killed in a row".
Such a limitation would probably save soul of the kran of my story but...what would he do of the 4th rogue? Does he have to ignore him and risk losing his mushroom because the system says so? would the rogue for an obcscure reason not attack him but the next traveller that would not be helped by the kran standing next to him?
A system limitation would in fact modify the RP to prevent a non RP attitude (no, RPing a PLer is not RPing...it's Ping with an R excuse for lvling).
If your solution is implemented the spawns will have to be far from each other. Or you will only change the kran's way of life to "kill 3 times rogue here, 3 times there, 3 here,  3there, ..." and so on.

[neko kyouran]

A little tale I'd like to tell.

Once upon a time there was a game called City of Heroes.  One wonderful night of beta testing, it was released to the testers a new zone, in which everyone was to go test out the new spawn coding.  As the rush of good doers killed off the baddies, the town became more and more purified of the evil mobs until there was not one single npc left.  At that glorious moment the town was cleared of all evil, and the super heros rejoiced as they had finally won the war of good vs. evil.  A loud voice was then heard high above, "HaHa very funny guys,  now everyone move to one spot so the npc's can actually spawn again."  Unbeknownst to the super heroes, the evil npcs are shy, and they do not like to show themselves if someone is in thier line of sight. 

Hope you enjoyed the tale. 

edit: typos

[white_slayer]

I have an idea a limit on exp say u can get a set amount of progression points per hour then if u really want u can keep killing the monster but not get any exp but ud still get loot.

[Suno_Regin]

Where is the realism to being limited to attack an NPC only a certain amount of times?

We're going to try to prevent spawn camping in the near future by expanding on NPC behavior and getting rid of static spawn points. It'll be much more realistic - that way people will have to move around to catch their targets.

How do you know the person was killing the NPC for those 8 hours nonstop though? They could have taken a long break, and returned shortly before you did.

Where's the realism in being able to challenge someone to a duel only a certain amount of times? =P

[Easton]

* Easton reads the first post

You can kill merchants?

But seriously, i think suno didn't make any good points..

Now thats all good and well, but I returned literally a few hours (6-8) later to find him STILL at the merchant. I think this is called powerlevelling no?

If he had sat their for 6-8 hours, yes that is powerleveling. I disagree with those who only powerlevel, i think there are plenty of other things to do in PS no matter what anyone says. BUT, maybe you went to the arena and saw him there.. then left, then he ran off and had 5 1/2 hours of great RP fun and came back to find his npc alone and started fighting him again. then you came back, and there he was.. it seems like he never left, but its actually a big coincidence.

I don't know about everyone else, but I find this sort of thing particularly annoying. Firstly, its so boring, secondly, it defeats the whole purpose of PS and lastly it's stupid. Now I don't have a problem if they kill the same NPC for a few time to get some xp, but seriously... 8 hours of the same NPC is a bit much.

This is my least favorite part of this post. seeing as how you're first and last reasons are completely subjective and opinionated [boring, stupid]. And yes.. 8 hours of the same npc is a bit much in my opinion, but again, who knows what that klyros did in 8 hours of time that you were not there. Lastly, i feel there are plenty of npcs to take care of in the arena, and if worse comes to worst you do something else with real people instead of npc's.

On the other hand, i fundamentally agree with you on this one Suno.. People shouldn't be so concerned about numbers and stats and weapons and blah blah blah. its great fun, i agree, but people take it a bit seriously at times. We all just need to remember that when we criticize others, we have to look at ourselves too.

Easton Ghent

[Suno_Regin]

My post was more of a joke. Who cares if it's annoying? Powerleveling should be allowed, killing merchants should be allowed, thieving should be allowed, attacking someone at any time should be allowed. There's no physical barrier keeping you from being able to do those things, they're just OOC limits placed so that you have to keep your character from doing certain things. Nothing more to say.

[Hadfael]

Being able of thieving NPCs is part of the "big plan".
Indeed the restrictions about challenging and thieving players can be seen as not realistic... Or can be seen as part of the game world, making it a better place to live in.
OOC : It's the will of devs create a respectul game were the greatest number can have fun roleplaying without being to be victims of every bad action that exist IRL.
IC: Yliakum is a world of magic made by gods who created civilised races.

As you pointed out, powerleveling is boring...it's better this way. Don't let boring people bore you. Have fun while they are bored and hopefully give up when they'll realise thay wasted time to gain power that will give them no advantage on you.
Being able to kill stronger monsters to get more power to kill more monsters is the only fun they can have. Consider them as decerebrated berserkers, able to kill the strongest monsters to open the road for your adventures.