Auction Channel and GM secret meetings

[Milana]

I was attending an auction in the plaza held by Proglin following normal RL auction house procedures.  He would describe the item then people would bid using auction channel.  Suddenly people were silenced.  It turned out to be Tarel.  He then appeared in the Plaza and said that at a GM meeting 5 weeks ago, it was decided that auction channel would only be used for description of item and all other bidding and such should be done in tells.

First, where was this published to the players?  You can not silence people for not adhering to a rule that was never published.  That in itself is an abuse of GM powers.

Second, to keep bidding honest the bids should be public.  While Proglin is an honest auctioneer who can say if the current bid published is a true bid or a ploy to drive the price up?

Third, have the GMs ever attended a RL auction?  I have attended silent auctions, auctions with placards, and auctions done by voice only.  The silent auction preferred by the secret GM meeting won't always work in the PS environment.

Please rethink this policy.  If this policy is to remain, then publish it in the Player's Guide.  If it isn't in the guide, it doesn't exist.

[zorbels]

This is a proper auction.......

16:14:08) Auction from Proglin: Come on people! A frosty small battle axe! D I hear 10 trias?
(16:14:15) Auction from Kankels: 10
(16:14:16) Vaice says: greetings Peacer
(16:14:17) Auction from Usarik: 500
(16:14:18) Auction from Biruno: 15
(16:14:20) Auction from Esserfin: 1k
(16:14:20) Auction from Parab: 10
(16:14:25) Bodacher says: 1000!
(16:14:25) Auction from Zopah: 2k
16:14:32) Auction from Esserfin: 3k
(16:14:41) Auction from Esserfin: 6k
(16:14:41) Auction from Proglin: I hear 5k!
(16:14:49) Auction from Proglin: Who's going to top that!
(16:14:51) Auction from Proglin: 6!!!
(16:14:59) Auction from Usarik: 6.5k
(16:15:01) Auction from Proglin: Come on people! A nice small battle axe!
(16:15:05) Auction from Zorbels: 7000k
(16:15:07) Auction from Proglin: Perfect for slaying rogues!
(16:15:10) Auction from Zopah: 2k and unlimited Slavery!
(16:15:11) Auction from Proglin: I hear 7000!
(16:15:13) Auction from Parab: 43
(16:15:21) Auction from Usarik: 10k
(16:15:29) Auction from Proglin: 10 THOUSAND trias!
(16:15:47) Auction from Proglin: Going once....
16:15:52) Auction from Proglin: Going twice,,,
(16:16:04) Auction from Proglin: SOLD to the proud brother Usarik!

Now my standing on this is ....  I am fine and will follow any rules that Talad and the Gm's set down. Thing is this P.U.B.S Auction has been posted for about a month. Why wasn't it addressed before this event took place by the Gm's. Surely reading the post you would assume they would be using the auction box. Someone should have approached Proglin or Bodacher and spoke with them about this before this event took place. Not during!!!! The is completely disrespectful.

I also don't understand why I was muted without warning. I was right in the middle of bidding on an item! This was absolutely unacceptable. I should have had the proper notice, and had a warning so that I could send Proglin a /tell on my item instead of being muted.

Last but not least there should be a thread for the Gm's to post new rules added to the game that players don't have access to. No one knew of this rule found here New Aution rule which I might add was only posted today. Funny that! Now if it had I would have been more than willing to point it out to Proglin or bodacher so that they didn't waste time and effort into setting this auction up.

As far as I can tell before the auction was so rudely interupted it was going fine and not disturbing anyone. The logs listed above ARE what a real life auction would be like. I think Proglin and Bodacher are owed an apology and I think this could have been dealt with in a better manner. I agree with Milana, please rethink this policy or publish this. Do not spring new rules on the players in such a manner.

[Xordan]

I agree. GM's should not make new rules like this and not tell the players anywhere except in the middle of an auction. I believe the auctions channel was designed to be used like this anyway, so GM's probably shouldn't make such rules without consulting the developers who designed it (aka, Talad). If there's a problem with flooding then we can code a solution I think.

[miadon]

OK I wasn't there, had to leave the pc with ps on it, i can follow the new rule fine, and agree with zorbels this thing ws mentioned ages ago, yet nothing was mentioned about this new rule. I can see why its used, as in the future, there will be too many people on and will aslo want to sell things at the time. Perhaps if in game auctions are to become more common the dev team (mainly graphics dep) could open up another building somewhere and make that into a small auction house (doesn't have to be very complex, just a small retangular building with a auction platform) where people can use the main chat to have the auction.

[Tarel]

In the GM-meeting a few weeks ago, the Game Masters agreed upon the following rule:

In Auction-channel it is only allowed to offer or ask for a trade.
The rest (like bidding and asking for more information) is seen as flooding the channel and should only be done in channels like Chat, Tells and Group.

This rule was not added to the forums yet, for some reason.
But now it is added in the Players Policy topic.
And besides that point, i was warning players in the auctionchannel, but my messages
were not shown to the public for some reason, while the did in previous version 14.
This was a reason why everyone was suprised about it.

I believe the auctions channel was designed to be used like this anyway, so GM's probably shouldn't make such rules without consulting the developers who designed it (aka, Talad). If there's a problem with flooding then we can code a solution I think.

and i also like to qoute from Talad's words:

* Developers are not GMs and are a separate structure.
* Developers have different goals and are not supposed to moderate the game.

[zorbels]

That post still doesn't excuse that this P.U.B.S event was posted over a month ago. I know alot of the Gm's saw it before it took place. Why wasn't it addressed then? Why left until last minute?  Why could this have not been left to finish .... as I know we weren't disturbing anyone .... then following after the auction it could have been made clear that the system doesn't allow the event to take place as it did and further events like Proglin and Bodachers would have to be handled in a different manner? Over all it could have been handled alot better. You have a bunch of ticked off players as a result to the way it was handled. Not good, it discourages any type of ambition to set up an event. That is something this game cannot afford to lose. 

[Proglin]

Dear GM's and Dev's or whomever goes over this,

You were very supportive with my ideas at the start, you even helped out at my tournaments in the beginning. but when my business attracted more RP, and becamebetter liked by the players, you stopped helping me.

I tried to create a newspaper, which was supported at first, but later one, when it took off, was destroyed cause we were no longer allowed to use our pets as sign posts.

Then I created an auction with my friend Bodacher, it went well, was fully RP, people liked it, people had fun, and once again, the GM's were very pleased to see the auction chaneel be used for an actual auction. But luckely... this RP auction was also destroyed by you guys, cause it is now called spamming.

All this leads to me wondering if it is really worth it. I try and create something, arround thegam mechanics, still involving loads of RP, and it gets more and more difficult cause of new rules, lame excuses and whatnot. Dear GM's and dev's... if you want me to stop creating, just say so. if you don't want me to stop creating, show a tad of supporthere and there.

[Drey]

I was attending an auction in the plaza held by Proglin following normal RL auction house procedures.  He would describe the item then people would bid using auction channel.  Suddenly people were silenced.  It turned out to be Tarel.  He then appeared in the Plaza and said that at a GM meeting 5 weeks ago, it was decided that auction channel would only be used for description of item and all other bidding and such should be done in tells.

First, where was this published to the players?  You can not silence people for not adhering to a rule that was never published.  That in itself is an abuse of GM powers.

Second, to keep bidding honest the bids should be public.  While Proglin is an honest auctioneer who can say if the current bid published is a true bid or a ploy to drive the price up?

Third, have the GMs ever attended a RL auction?  I have attended silent auctions, auctions with placards, and auctions done by voice only.  The silent auction preferred by the secret GM meeting won't always work in the PS environment.

Please rethink this policy.  If this policy is to remain, then publish it in the Player's Guide.  If it isn't in the guide, it doesn't exist.

i bet whoever told you to shut up was a dickhead.

[Tarel]

That post still doesn't excuse that this P.U.B.S event was posted over a month ago. I know alot of the Gm's saw it before it took place. Why wasn't it addressed then? Why left until last minute?  Why could this have not been left to finish .... as I know we weren't disturbing anyone .... then following after the auction it could have been made clear that the system doesn't allow the event to take place as it did and further events like Proglin and Bodachers would have to be handled in a different manner? Over all it could have been handled alot better. You have a bunch of ticked off players as a result to the way it was handled. Not good, it discourages any type of ambition to set up an event. That is something this game cannot afford to lose. 

I can't speak for other GM's.
But i follow the rule as they are agreed upon with the GM-team.
Everytime when i am around, i deal with the players the same way.
I give them a normal message in the auction-channel and explain what is and what is not allowed.
I have been doing this for weeks already.
You can ask around if you don't believe it.

I have spoken with Proglin and many others who contacted me.
Proglin and Bodacher continued in the Chat-channel as stated in the rules, so no harm was done anymore from that point.

And Game Masters can only see auctions, when we are in range of an auction.
When i am in Ojaveda, i can't see the auctions in Hydlaa.

If i was earlier present near the auction, i would have sent the auction-rule earlier in the Auction-channel.
If my message was shown, as it did in previous versions, you would have also known it earlier.
I now had to become visible to sent the message to the channel.

To conclude it.
When the system showed my message to everyone, as it did in the previous versions, then everyone would have known about it and did not receive the suprise of being muted.
Things would have handled better then and the result was the same.
No bidding or asking more information in the Auction-channel, but simply offer or ask for a trade
and move to normal chat.

Bidding is roleplaying and the auction-channel is a kind of bill-board in the opinion of the GM-team. Thats a reason why the bidding should be done in normal chats.

[Peacer]

i hate repeating others of what's already said, but i think this rule is quote riddicilous, we had to stuff together to head Prog and Bod in /say because they didn't want to spam anyone else not attending to it with shouts. It gave an odd situation which is not realistic as it wasn't secret nor poor on money making people go into a pack because there's to little space in the auction house for people to be spread out which weren't the situation here as it was in the open air on the middle of the plaza.

Yeah auction sends to the whole plaza too, but look what it says "auction from person" either bidding or offering, the text is normally red, you don't read it if you are notthere, shouts could intefer with others rp ginving a confusing little chatbox.

[Drey]

Nothing wrong with the whole auction being carried out in /auction.

[Karyuu]

This was badly handled..

[zorbels]

Nothing wrong with the whole auction being carried out in /auction.

Thats my thoughts exactly but we are being told different. This honestly makes no sense ...... to not have the auction in the auction box. For the love of Talad could someone please review this new rule and at least have it make sense.

[Karyuu]

There are a lot of weird opinions, strangely the majority of which eixst within the GM team, that the developers have no say or need to have no say in GM work. There's no point in quoting back the GM Guide at Xordan - he helped write it, he knows precisely what it says. There was a mistake in not consulting with the devs before making rules about how to use game features.. It kind of flew by.

One argument in favor of this that I remember was that if five different offers were presented in the auction channel at the same time, it would not only be hard for players to follow bids on this or that, but it would indeed flood the chat for others. I think at this point if some solution can be coded, it would be welcomed.

[Myrthe]

this P.U.B.S is like the first real auction system the game has ever had. so now, everytime we want to make a bid we have to do /tell auctioneer bid...thats a pain. its not as if we are disrupting anyone. in RL if you are standing near an auction, you could hear it also. then you would move away if you wanted to talk privately or without disruption. it shoul be the same in-game. if you dont want to hear the auction, go away. how does it flood the channel since thats like the only auction that has more than like 2 items. wait for it to be over, and you have a crowd already gathered! or go away to another area to auction in. i dont see any reason that you guys would want to destroy this but i see that you have...

There are a lot of weird opinions, strangely the majority of which eixst within the GM team, that the developers have no say or need to have no say in GM work. There's no point in quoting back the GM Guide at Xordan - he helped write it, he knows precisely what it says. There was a mistake in not consulting with the devs before making rules about how to use game features.. It kind of flew by.

One argument in favor of this that I remember was that if five different offers were presented in the auction channel at the same time, it would not only be hard for players to follow bids on this or that, but it would indeed flood the chat for others. I think at this point if some solution can be coded, it would be welcomed.

when has anyone ever seen five different offers posted at the same time...?