Author Topic: Guilds and the setting  (Read 441 times)

Pestilence

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Guilds and the setting
« on: July 25, 2006, 11:54:46 am »
As the world of Yliakum evolves in our community many guilds have gone and gone and some even survived till this day.

However the compatiibility of the guilds to the setting has not always been the best. This has been becuase of two reasons. People who start guilds to fast without really knowing the setting and a setting that doesn't say that much sadly about how most things work in this way and age. For example we know there is a religion of the Dark Flame, but do we know anything about what kind of religion it is? Even with Laanx and Talad who atleast we know as gods we don't know how they like to be worshipped and how much communication there is between the gods and the people.

I think this could be improved if guilds could only be created if they have a story that does fit the setting and if the devteam would include more members to work on the setting.  At the moment only one person is in the settingsteam and adding more information to the setting has been quite slow and feel the major things in day to day life should be adressed somewhere so we know how the world looks like for our characters. Also the first wouldn't really work if there is only one person who is already writing settings who needs to check the settingstories written by potential guildleaders.

zhai

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Re: Guilds and the setting
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2006, 12:42:31 pm »
I agree there should be more communication between guildleaders and devs when it comes to settings. I feel its the guild's responsibility to ask if what they are stating is coherent with the game settings. However, I strongly feel, this should not limit guild creation (for what we've already discussed in this thread: http://hydlaa.com/smf/index.php?topic=24052.0). Now, it's true the settings are rather lacking when it comes to some details and maybe the community can give a hand. We can take certain elements that have been used in previous RP and events as guidelines to extend the current settings. For example: we've established many things about the spirit realm and the kind of magic we can RP, this should be considered when expanding the settings; same as religion and other thing. Of course, the upper hand will always be held by the devs and should adjust to that. But there is good creative work out there that could facilitate this process, so why not take it in consideration?
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Xillix Queen of Fools

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Re: Guilds and the setting
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2006, 01:55:38 pm »
I believe that player side creations are not always consistent with settings. Often, names of guilds frequently violate the naming rules dictated for characters. Usually that is hammered out through the players the Gms and the guilds. An alarming number of people Xillix encounters in day to day activities at the temple have not even read the history, let alone the players guide. I would not be exaggerating if i said 95% of the new players I encounter have not read anything at all related to Planeshift. The forums tend to be adopted as part of the gaming experience only after a long time generally as well.

All of these issues of misinformation need to be addressed because it is difficult to get new players to understand the world of Yliakum. Perhaps recent efforts at videos will one day create a handsome 3d trailer for the game to compensate for those who cannot or will not read to understand the world. I have been very impatient with those who would come to me for help but would not read the Planeshift literature. Some people have even lied to me about it just to get their next quest without the “pain” of reading. I have literally heard, “oh do I have to read ALL THAT!?” I am not defending the illiterate cyber-monkeys, but attempting to cope with the reality of the presence of this type of player in suggesting multimedia presentations to aid player understanding. Some kind of minimum knowledge of the settings is probably a decent requirement for creating a guild.

I think there is genuine yearning on the part of the player base for more information and history, but that the needs of the alpha come in here as well. The history of Yliakum may well intend to be brief and somewhat cryptic on specifics, a great deal is yet undecided, and there is a great likelihood that those now playing and loving Planeshift will continue to do so through later releases. The history being somewhat shady on the specifics leaves an opportunity for interpretation on the players’ part that is invaluable to the settings team. As we have seen in many areas of the games development the player base is generative. A player adds to the "setting." Very much in the same manner as in 2d and 3d fan art, some of what is written by players may eventually be codified, to that end we each have an obligation to read and interpret the given settings.

Instance:

The Book of Names is written in an ancient tongue, Xillix does not know it, no one does, but she is learning seeking answers (begging for both guidelines and latitude) trying to translate it, to revive the faith from its current state (Sharven and Menlil), to bring about a new era . . . The robes that the Vespers wear that correspond to the names of their ranks, the duties, even the silly mask and fool’s garb Lady Xillix wears were all circumstantial or interpretational leaps; but in conceiving the church I did not want to be directly emulative of any organized faith I had ready familiarity with, I wanted alien or exotic, yet genuinely religious. Reading the settings closely and often, answering questions on the margin of what the settings explicitly state, knowing the readable literature in game, speaking with npcs, are all taken into consideration in making these determinations. We know from what we do have of our history that Laanx is powerful, likes chaotic magic, has issues with Talad, and enjoys being worshipped by as many people as possible. We know he/she (or is it she/he? :P ) wears a mask and has exhibited potential as a shape changer, or gender changer at least.
 

Instance:

The Black Flame we know next to nothing about it. I might interpret it as having a similarly "darker" leaning given the ease with which it replaced Laanx worship in Kadaikos.

I think if too much of the history is codified in this early stage of development it might hinder the players’ chances to contribute to the process, but a little more to go on here or there might settle some disputes.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2006, 02:03:21 pm by Xillix Queen of Fools »

zorbels

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Re: Guilds and the setting
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2006, 03:16:51 pm »
 :) I think all points that have been addressed are fair, with alot of thought put into them.

I have one issue I would like to point out though. That issue is everyone is assuming that Noob's will read the history, educate themselves on the game and then come in to play. Are you kidding me? I just wanted to play. I didn't read anything about Yliakum or Planeshifts history when I first started. It can be quite overwhelming or hard to understand if you haven't even seen the world. Instead I found I got interested in the history of planeshift when I started writing my story "The Story of Zorbels" and roleplaying. I wanted to make sure nothing I said or did conflicted with the history and it's settings.

Most players just want to come in and find out what the game is about. I think at that point it would be great if some of the players who put alot of time into the game and know new faces .... they could help by pointing out the places to go and read the history, perhaps pull the new player into a roleplay so it is exciting to learn about. Make it a quest for them to know certain things and then they get a reward. Playing a good hostess in my opinion would help these newbies to have guidance and they will have examples laid out for them, as well as be educated on the history. It is then I think we would start seeing more productive guilds. I mean how are you going to know any better if there are no examples? Maybe the long standing guilds in Yliakum at this point aren't as good at being examples as they think.
 

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zhai

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Re: Guilds and the setting
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2006, 03:19:56 pm »
Yes, Xillix, I agree that probably the majority of newcomers start playing the game without reading all they should read (forums included). However, suggesting that they read "all that" before moving on with no concrete in-game benefit can make it difficult for those too eager to play, play, play. Now, don't get me wrong: I agree that the "responsible" player should do that and more but, that is not so common... So, being practical about it, I would agree with Zorbels on the quest thing: maybe guild masters can help out giving their fellow guild members and applicants quests that require settings knowledge and more npc quests could have this requirement as well in order to be solved.

I see that being active both in-game and in the forums make the PS experience more enjoyable so I personally would try to encourage that possitively. We will always have the lazy-rp virgin-permanently ooc-give me money-wazzup dude kind of newcomer yet that same player may be filled with energy and with the right guidance can become a great element in our community. Giving them the benefit of the doubt can make that happen and also help relieve this "illiterate" issue.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2006, 03:21:43 pm by zhai »
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Pestilence

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Re: Guilds and the setting
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2006, 03:46:03 pm »
I do agree that newcomers should be guided, but what better guidance then by example? I agree many of the guilds present now have little RP purpose in the game and that is kkind of annoying in my eyes. If you make it so that atleast the guild would have to make sure they have an RP purpose you would get that the newcomers realize a lot faster they should know a little about the world. People would be looking more at the story of the guild then the name aswell if the guilds have these goals as recruiters will often tell people about their goals to get the right people to join.

The art written by the players is a good place to look for the devs but it is really dangerous to say that is the setting. I have seen groups who have been deciding things about the setting themselves making some rather large assumptions and then practicly impose those on other people. Been the target of this myself and find this highly irritating. Specially if the persons are saying you are being childish when asking how someone is able to do something like that OOC.

RP is a group effort adnd in small groups you can make your own decicions about adding to the setting, but the problem is that with as many people as our playing you can't make it that everyone agrees to follow it or even knows about it unless the devs make it official in my opinion.

zorbels

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Re: Guilds and the setting
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2006, 04:49:11 pm »
I also wanted to point out the age group in planeshift. I think it is assumed to much that the whole of Yliakum (Faces behind the players) are a mature age group. It is for all ages, so technically if a ten year old is going to start a guild it would be alot different from a 26 year old building a guild. A 26 year olds guild structure and set up would be alot different from a ten year olds. More mature and experienced roleplayers would have an easier time meeting the games rules and settings.

Another thing that makes guilds so hard to form in my opinion is that the game really isn't ready for guilds. I have had an idea for a guild for some time now, but it will not work unless the good and evil characters in game become known. Especially evil and shady characters. Also I would need more settings and history than what has been written about Yliakum in order for my history to be written right and in depth. Then there is the fear of the wipe and new clients. It would be a shame to come up with a great history (taking what you needed for facts from the main planeshift website) only to have it months down the road changed by the devs, or maybe new parts added to the history which contradict what you have written based on the old facts.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2006, 05:10:41 pm by zorbels »
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zhai

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Re: Guilds and the setting
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2006, 04:54:57 pm »
I do agree that newcomers should be guided, but what better guidance then by example? I agree many of the guilds present now have little RP purpose in the game and that is kkind of annoying in my eyes. If you make it so that atleast the guild would have to make sure they have an RP purpose you would get that the newcomers realize a lot faster they should know a little about the world. People would be looking more at the story of the guild then the name aswell if the guilds have these goals as recruiters will often tell people about their goals to get the right people to join.

The art written by the players is a good place to look for the devs but it is really dangerous to say that is the setting. I have seen groups who have been deciding things about the setting themselves making some rather large assumptions and then practicly impose those on other people. Been the target of this myself and find this highly irritating. Specially if the persons are saying you are being childish when asking how someone is able to do something like that OOC.

RP is a group effort adnd in small groups you can make your own decicions about adding to the setting, but the problem is that with as many people as our playing you can't make it that everyone agrees to follow it or even knows about it unless the devs make it official in my opinion.

True. We can't be the ones to decide if something once RPed is to become part of the settings. However, when considering how to expand the details of it, the long list of RP events can give planty of valid ideas. Some may need editing and may not be coherent at all, but in the end it's up to the devs. But what we can do as guilds (and even those many non-guilded but very active RPers) is promote the knowledge of the history of Yliakum and keep our plots within those parameters by:

1) Designing guild quests that require knowledge of the settings.

2) Planning our plots considering what grey zones we might be standing on and asking a GM for clearance in those particular cases (in my experience it's always been quick way to test plot ideas).

3) Not RPing beyond what the characters or organizations can actually do and always keeping in mind that we all have to give as we take in the RP experience. It's not fair to claim to be the greatest magician or fighter in the world (it gets really annoying when someone around goes that way). "One of..." will more than do IMHO if you can back it up both with RP and skill, and the most probable thing is that others will respect that and won't have a problem at all.

4) Not fixing stories as movies (where everything is planned and every conversation scripted) nor creating easy solutions for a happy ending. We don't need more gods to just show up and fix our problems nor the current ones to come forth and suddenly talk to us. I say we leave the gods where they are if we don't know enough about them (because if we do, we know they're not going to waste their time fixing our little problems). There's always another smaller, more humble way to work things out.

5) Checking the forums for previous posts related to ours to see how things were presented and what kind of feedback they got.

Well, that's my two trias for now... I guess more things can be added to the list so PM me if you have any more ideas and I'll edit. Very nice topic, btw! ::)
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miadon

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Re: Guilds and the setting
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2006, 04:56:45 pm »
Indeed it is hard to roleplay without knowing more settings, I would be happy if things like a simple list of names of well known people like the octarchs of each level or major cities of each level  was made known. Just a simple list like that. So then people can claim to come from those other cities or that they are moving there or whatever.
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tssthorn

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Re: Guilds and the setting
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2006, 04:58:34 pm »
Heh, actaully I have not read the history untill recently. First time I looked at it I said no way, not going to read this. I do not read the history of most games I play  :oops:. BUT I decided to read it when PS was down and being updated. I actaully liked the story! There was also alot of information in there that helped me learn what some people where talking about. But I for one understand why people do not read it, this is my first MMORPG I have ever played and most games you learn about the story in the game. ...[Not sure if thats a good suggestion, but maybe you can find away to get the story in the game? Even if its on a stone or somthing?] But what im saying is, allmost all games come with a story and history, but while you play the game this stuff gets told most of the time, and that the way most people have learned to play a game.