Thus it ends.

[Karyuu]

[...] it's more about focus.

Personally I liked the setup the way it was before, with RMs (well, EMs is better I suppose, since someone threw a hissy fit at the name last time). But I don't know how many current GMs would agree with this, and most importantly I absolutely dread approaching this subject with Talad. He can be very final on what he wants.

[Mardek]

I'm shure if he were presented with a well thought out argument, with most of the bugs worked out on how to do it, he would change his mind

[Kiern]

But I don't know how many current GMs would agree with this, and most importantly I absolutely dread approaching this subject with Talad. He can be very final on what he wants.

I don't see how the GMs should have any say in that...but I guess that's beside the point.  If you do happen to bring it up with Talad and he denies it, if you PM me why or something I'd appreciate it.  Not that I'm going to do anything with it, this kind of thing just interests me (if you haven't noticed).  If I thought I wouldn't have a negative effect on the outcome and in fact I would find myself actually able to talk to him, I'd do it myself.

I'm shure if he were presented with a well thought out argument, with most of the bugs worked out on how to do it, he would change his mind

Heh.

[ThomPhoenix]

Kerol, Chaos, Uyaem, and I are active and can do events. Where does the problem come in? Having us all on at the right time. Not only are we in different time zones, we have different job/class schedules. I'm working on some 1-GM events I can run by myself as soon as I'll get back from vacation, but it's difficult to kidnap someone else to help.

Exactly. That's why the team needs more members. I heard 3 GM's are coming up, so I hope they will help.

GMs are divided based on rank. New GMs won't get high-rank commands as soon as they get in - and that makes sense, no? So not everyone has commands that may help in event-making, but they are most certainly free to participate and help in whatever way they can.

The problem is the ranks don't shift that often. Plus it's hard for a GM to prove himself if the only thing he can do is punish people, and because of that most people hate said GM. I see no harm in giving lower rank GM's more commands, how are you going to screw up the game with the /morph command anyway. The "rotten appels" should've been filtered out anyway.
I propose a GM1 period where GM's can be tested for their willingness, activity, teamwork. Afterwards they just get all commands, except maybe for some higher risk ones like /npc (duh).

My head is splitting on bringing up the RM issue again. There are some GMs, me included, who would still want to be able to both moderate and run events, and thus would have to be on both teams, and I'm not going to touch this, as it's been more trouble than it's worth..

It's not about willingness, only the people who actually bother to do events should be on the RM team. If needed that team could change from week to week, depending on how much time people have.

Personally I liked the setup the way it was before, with RMs (well, EMs is better I suppose, since someone threw a hissy fit at the name last time). But I don't know how many current GMs would agree with this, and most importantly I absolutely dread approaching this subject with Talad. He can be very final on what he wants.

I already did that for you.
Bottomline of the conversation:
Uyaem (and Kerol) can change stuff as they see fit.

[Karyuu]

I'm shure if he were presented with a well thought out argument, with most of the bugs worked out on how to do it, he would change his mind

Well, you have an opportunity to make that argument and polish it here Help me out.

Uyaem (and Kerol) can change stuff as they see fit.

I'm afraid I don't understand where is this coming from.

[ThomPhoenix]

An IRC conversation I had with Talad.
I asked him a couple of times if he could make some changes to the GM team, like more GM's and more GM's with event-commands, all those times he redirected me to Uyaem.

From the conversation I understood that he doesn't bother about GM team changes, and Uyaem should just handle all that.
Uyaem is the leader of the GM team after all.

[Mardek]

you have an opportunity to make that argument and polish it here  Help me out.

Well here goes  nothing

My idea was to have people whose only purpose was to make events and help with roleplay.
They would'nt need powers like mute or other inforcement tools and giveing them a different name in game would make sure that someone would not come to them with problems like bugs or stalkers
I have been thinking on orginizational models fo what we now call GM's and I have an expantion on my erlier idea.
1. GM's as they are now.
2. Event Masters (or EM's): people interested in makeing and running events and helping players learn to rp.
3. Rule Inforcement Officers (or RIO's): people interested in Inforcing the rules and such (basicly cops).
4. Bug Catchers (or BC's): people interested in finding bugs and confirming bug reports .
so if you had a bug you would go to someone wearing a BC 'hat' or a GM 'hat' but not a RIO or a EM 'hat'
i dont see a problem with one person wearing all four 'hats' at different times but i don't know how GM-ship is handled inturnaly
the way im imagining this is a gm has an alt thats in the EM guild and so on

 
Edit: this is geting a bit off topic maybe it should have its own thred?

[Kiern]

An IRC conversation I had with Talad.
I asked him a couple of times if he could make some changes to the GM team, like more GM's and more GM's with event-commands, all those times he redirected me to Uyaem.

From the conversation I understood that he doesn't bother about GM team changes, and Uyaem should just handle all that.
Uyaem is the leader of the GM team after all.

I don't understand, what is all this talk about the GMs?  If the idea is that they are seperate to the GMs, why should the GMs really have anything to do with/a say in this?  It's purely a dev decision as far as I can tell...but then from what I can tell from this board the entire system is screwy as far as telling who has a say in what.

[ThomPhoenix]

.but then from what I can tell from this board the entire system is screwy as far as telling who has a say in what.

I agree to that!

And there doesn't have to be another GM like team (though it would be handy).
Just some GM's who will get event commands and have the task to focus more on events can work too.

And if a GM is doing an event on his own and needs help (another character needs to be played by someone), he/she could just /deputize a trusted player to help a bit. I think that plan was called the Questmaster plan, though it never got off the ground. I guess there wasn't enough trust 

[Karyuu]

First of all, I don't understand how Uyaem would have all that decisive power when Talad was so very clear when the team was reformed that control of the GMs rested in the hands of the devs. I have very serious doubts that if Uyaem would want to split the team into EMs and GMs, Talad would just smile and nod. So I have no idea what conversations you had with whom, but this is what I know and have known, and so far no one reliable on the subject (no offense!) has told me anything different. I'll wait for Uyaem's input.

Mardek, we seriously don't need so many separate teams. First of all they are a hassle to manage, and second we don't need a whole team for bug-catching when every other team does and should have that as part of their duties. GMs and EMs are enough without overdoing it.

But what I'm looking for are arguments on why such a "split" or different team would be a good idea. Why the community would want that, how would it benefit folks, etc.

[ThomPhoenix]

Hey, I'm not saying any team needs to be split, just that GM's should focus more on events.
As far as I could tell from my conversation with Talad, Uyaem has the choice on that one.

So I have no idea what conversations you had with whom, but this is what I know and have known, and so far no one reliable on the subject (no offense!) has told me anything different.

*sigh* We're not getting anywhere in this way...

[Karyuu]

Thom, I don't think you understand: we were told that our focus is meant to be on events for a very long time now. This won't be a change in the slightest. But we still have a problem getting people together, and while I like your suggestion of /deputizing trusted players, what fair method is there to see who is trusted or not without being blamed for favoritism or power abuse?

[Mardek]

And there doesn't have to be another GM like team (though it would be handy).
Just some GM's who will get event commands and have the task to focus more on events can work too.

The whole new group thing is so that someone handling rp ONLY dosn't have to say 'sorry i can't help you with your stalker I can only do event manigment'.

To clearify I was thinking someone might just be in one or two of the groups I described as well.

But what I'm looking for are arguments on why such a "split" or different team would be a good idea. Why the community would want that, how would it benefit folks, etc.

you are corect on the to many teams got caried away there it's just how I think.
as to why EM's as a seperate group:
1. You can have people that just handle events this way and have no enforcement powers.
2. The skills and personality reqs. are different for someone who enforces rules than someone who runs a rp event.
3. You can have different requirements for a seprate group.
4. You can have rules for each group

[ThomPhoenix]

Thom, I don't think you understand: we were told that our focus is meant to be on events for a very long time now. This won't be a change in the slightest. But we still have a problem getting people together,

People will need to be threatened then, in taking that mission serious

and while I like your suggestion of /deputizing trusted players, what fair method is there to see who is trusted or not without being blamed for favoritism or power abuse?

I see where this is leading to.
Instead of adding another 20 rules to the GM book, why not follow your heart more, and think with logic?
I don't think if people like Proglin, Gag or Zorbels would be deputized they would use that "power" to wreck the server

[miadon]

bwhahaha wrecking the server by making the entire of oja rain so much it floods, bwhahahaha. *evil look*