What does it look like from the edge of a plane? (and other questions)

[Baldur]

Yes, I see that now. That also explains the ending tunnels, and how they go somewhere else. IMO, not even a developer will know how big the universe is or will be. Only estimates and pixel-counts can decide on how large the area will be. Just imagine the lag created if you could see the entire Yliakum.

[The Wandering Djinn]

I have seen at least one other illustration made that shows a system of cranes and platforms that were constructed to facilitate travel and trade between at least some of the adjacent levels inside the Stalactite of Yliakum.

I guess that although some parts of the cliff face might be vertical with perhaps some overhangs, the geography was not a complete barrier to the earlier citizens of Yliakum.

[Berlioz]

This whole concept of living on the inside of something (as opposed to the outside, like we do) reminds me of the theory that arose during the mid 20th century that suggested that we lived on the INSIDE of the earth.  Of course it didn't last long, but it was interesting nonetheless.

The whole theory was about mirroring the whole universe at the surface of the earth. Then there would be all the universe (including us) inside the earth and the earth outside. Since it is just a mirroring, it hasn't been disproved yet and possibly will never. There were attempts, of course, but you cannot decide whether we live in- or outside the earth from inside the universe. At least that has been proven. So choose, which way you like more  . When you're a scientist, you should stick with the outside version, because that would make most formulas looking easier (but not all). They are all the same of course, just transformed, or better: mirrored.

[eldoth_terevan]

"There were attempts, of course, but you cannot decide whether we live in- or outside the earth from inside the universe. At least that has been proven. So choose, which way you like more  Smiley. When you're a scientist, you should stick with the outside version, because that would make most formulas looking easier (but not all)."

Actually, the Germans in WWII tried to take this theory into account when communicating with submarines on the other side of the world. Reasoning being, that if it was really mirrored-insy or hollow earth, you should be able to send  radio waves directly into the sky to communicate with a sub on the other side of the world. It didn't work.

[Mykentros]

Berlioz:  I didn't know anyone still believed in that.  First off, with our current understanding of gravity (which, so far, has been absolutely correct for the millions of stars and tiny atomic interactions), a hollow inside a sphere, no matter how think of a shell it has, will always have a gravity of zero everywhere inside of it.  (the earth is not a perfect spere, so we would have TINY gravitational imbalances)  If the object was spinning, people would feel a "downward" pulling force due to centripetal force, but than we would experience anamolies as we apporached the poles, but we do not (not to mention that the earth would have to rotate MUCH faster than it does now).  It is also possible to calculate the amount of centripetal force on a person after moving around the earth.  All evidence says that the centrifugal force (not a real force unless in a non-inertial frame of reference) decreases the weight of a person, meaning it is pulling upwards, making that "outwards"  Of course then there's the fact that the sun sets at night, and we can physically see the curvature of the earth (and see the earth as a ball from outer space).  And then there's the question.  What in the world (pun, haha) would happen if you dug to the center?

Next, if even in the face of all this evidence you still believe hollow earth is correct, you can completely reject hollow earth through Occam's Razor (which states that when you have two theories with equally good predictive powers, chose the simpler one, in laymans terms).  First off, you cannot use Euclidean geometry.  If we are to believe that the INSIDE of the earth holds all of the galaxies and stars, that would mean that the distance to go through the universe either becomes drastically smaller, or we use non-Euclidean geometry (which is not incorrect in and of itself).  In this case, the distance through the center is actually longer than a circumnavigation.  You could not have a regular unit through your entire model  (think of it like making a map of the world in an hourglass shape instead of the more common ellipse.  Neither one is a perfect representation, but an elliptical projection is much easier to use)  Next, you'd be left with left with a very garbled up version of Coperincus' theory.  Not only that, but light can no longer travel in a straight line!  At this point one is just playing with coordinate systems and is achieving very little.  Through Occam's Razor, one must choose the traditional (which actually was not always the traditional.  Flat earth anyone?), spherical earth model.

Of course as Yliakum is in a completely magical world, who knows what the gods decide, but I doubt that they would rearrange the universe for a single planet.  The planet Yliakum is on is not THAT special.  Speaking of which, what IS the name of the planet Yliakum is on?

-Mykentros

[Baldur]

Of course as Yliakum is in a completely magical world, who knows what the gods decide, but I doubt that they would rearrange the universe for a single planet.  The planet Yliakum is on is not THAT special.  Speaking of which, what IS the name of the planet Yliakum is on?

-Mykentros

That's a good question, I haven't heard of the name either.

[sesmi]

Yliakum is located thousands of meters under the surface inside a huge excavated stalactite

The planes are just huge caves above eachother. There is no edge as far as I know. Just like with the Bronze Doors map you would simply have something that looks like a mountainrange reach to the cieling.

anyhow as to how it was formed I think is a bit hard to compare it with RL. As I haven't seen a stalactite thats citysize yet. Just the thought of how long that would take naturally to develop is mindboggling really.

As to the gold and such if one asumes it's still formed with water gold might not desolve in water but it can often been found in riverbanks and such. Depending how the water got there it might have been carrying some gold aswell. Otherwise it might have naturally formed there seeing how much time it must have taken to develop a stalactite of that size.

Yes there is an edge. in the player's guide there's a picture and it clearly shows an edge.

[Mykentros]

Hmm, well, now that the edge has been established, there are a few more questions.  How wide is each level?  How much is the drop from level to level?  I'm guessing it's something substantial but I have a history of guessing things wrong.  The reason I want to know this is because with such a prevalant amounts of cliffs, there are a lot of opportunities for some very interesting stories involving them.  Just a few examples.  A man sees his wife killed and afterwards walks along the edge, taking long poignant looks downward.  Or during a chase scene, a woman is riding on a non-flying mount (are we going to have those?) pursued by three men on similar mounts.  She reaches the edge and barely manages to keep from falling off.  The three men ride up against her and push against the cliff edge, and one slowly draws out a sword.  As he swings, the woman jumps off of her horse and throws herself off of the edge. (to be contintued...dun dun dun)

Those cliffs have lots of possiblities  (Don't steal my ideas!     )

-Mykentros

[Seytra]

@Hollow-world theory: This theory includes the requirement that light does not run in straight lines, but along the vurvature so that it appears to run in straight lines on a curved surface. That would then have to also apply to other electromagnetic waves, including radio signals, so they, too, will follow the surface. Therefore, even if there indeed was a straight line from one side of the world to the other that went through space, it wouldn't help, since the radio waves would not follow that line, giving you the same effect: destination unreachable.
However, AFAIK this theory can be disproven by the following experiment: assume you dig two shafts straight downwards. This would not be affected by sight and optical laws. Straight down. Then you connect these two vertical shafts by a horizontal one. Now measure the distance between the shaft endings on the surface and underground. If the surface is inside a ball, then the distance at the surface will be smaller than that underground. Otherwise, it will be larger.

Anyway, back to Yliakum now: there exist no special laws of nature that would make light go in bends or somesuch, thus the Yliaki can, given the required science and math, deduce that they're inside something. From the settings, it is clear that they do know that. What they don't know (but assume from the dimensions of the levels), is that they are inside a stalactite that hands inside a cave.

There is a book at Jayose's library that talks about the dimensions of the world (with a caveat that it might be incorrect). According to that book
- there is a huge hole in the very center of each level. Through that hole the light from the crystal travels to the levels below. The dimensions of the holes are such that the light can reach the outskirts of the level below, hence the holes diameters shrink along with the level diameter.

The gods made the slopes between the levels so that the light of crystal could illuminate all the available land

That likely means that the holes are not vertical, but coned (i.e., the diameter of the hole is larger at it's lower end).
- the levels are spaced 5km apart, and are 5km think, except the first level which is 10km thick and the ceiling is 10km high.

- the first level is not inside the stalactite, but inside the rock that it hangs from, which is why it can connect to the stone labyrints at all. This is also why mining is allowed there: you can't dig through the walls into the cave (though you could reach the bottom of the level's floor given sufficiently advanced mining techniques; also, excessive mining would still destabilise the stalactite, regardless of where it is done; however, the scale of mining would have to meet todays RL standards for it to have any such effect).
- All water enters the stalactite through the first level, where vast underground rivers come from the stone walls. That water then travels through the level and to the lower levels. I assume that part of it falls down through the center hole, and part through cracks in the levels or walls.
- the lowest levels (7 and 8) are submerged, the center holes are filled by water as well. Depending on season, the 6th level is partially submerged or dry. The center hole is a huge lake when viewed from the dried sixth level.
- the water exits the stalactite through the bottom of the 8th level. This means that there are cracks through which it flows out, and falls from the stalactite in a huge waterfall down into the cave, where it forms a huge lake at the shores of which the Lemur settlement, left over from Laanx's wanderings and now ruled by the Black Flame, is located.

The dimensions of the stalactite, according to the book, would, in theory, allow one to see from one side to the other.

The first level has a total diameter (hole included) of 50 km (...) with an inner circumference of about 102 km, with an outer circumference of about 157 km. This means a surface of 1256 square km. The second level has a total diameter of 40 km, the floor is 5 km wide, with an inner circumference of about 102 km, with an outer circumference of about 125 km. This means a surface of 549,8 square km

Assuming this continues, the 8th level will be a puddle of mere 1.25km in diameter.

It also means that the planet's crust must, at least at the place where Yliakum is located, be thicker than that of earth, since otherwise the underside of the stalactite would be below it, let alone the huge cave, especially since the stalactite's upper end is about 10km below the surface.

Regarding the percentage of Yliakum that is implemented: I think it's nowhere near 1/16th. Yliakum is an entire country, after all. Given the sheer physical dimensions and the fact that ATM we have only two cities, of which only a tiny fraction is implemented, and some open space that would, if laid out in a straight line, AFAICS not even suffice to connect the two cities when they are placed where they belong in the long run, it is clear that we see, at best, 1/100th of Yliakum, likely much less. This does not even account for the planetary surface, the stone labyrinths, the cave below the stalactite, Pradesha and the other planes that the portals lead to.

The dimensions would, compared to the earth's atmosphere, probably allow atmospheric phenomena to develop (considering that the weather on earth forms in the lower 18km of the atmosphere), which means that, contrary to my previous interpretations of Yliakum weather (which were founded on a much lower ceiling), RL-like weather, including rain, could possibly form. This does, however, not exclude the possibility of trickles of water that fall frim the ceiling, though they would be heavily disturbed by atmospheric motion and thus affect an area, not a single place.

Regarding the planet: I am not aware of a name either. There, however, must be similarly many planets in the PS universe as in the RL one, given that Laanx and Talad, according to the settings,

discovered one quiet planet with a crystal column full of energy and mystery.

This implies there are lots of other planets.

Regarding the lunatic: I don't think that would work. The lunatic cannot know the names of the machinery like lasers or computers. They might not even know the word "simulation". It is possible for them to describe things in terms of a chess-board, but not in terms of modern-day tech.

Edit: corrections