Author Topic: IMPORTANT: How you talk to NPCs has changed!  (Read 12537 times)

Vengeance

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IMPORTANT: How you talk to NPCs has changed!
« on: August 19, 2006, 06:17:20 pm »
When I was playing PS as a player the other night, I tried talking to the npc's, and aside from the obvious vocabulary problems, I really didn't like how I had to target the NPC first before I spoke.  I also didn't like how when I was talking to the player next to me, with the npc targeted, the npc kept responding to my chatting with the other player.  So I have changed all that.

Now, to talk to any npc, just say their first name at the beginning or end of your sentence.  For example, you can say "Harnquist, hello" or "Hello harnquist", and he should respond.  After you have used his name and he knows you are talking to him, he keeps paying attention for 15 seconds in case you say something else.  So for 15 seconds, you don't have to keep typing his name.  As long as you keep talking to him, the 15 seconds keeps getting reset.  If you stop for a while and then start talking to him again, you'll need to use his name again.

Also, if you talk to one npc, then switch to another, the 15 seconds switches to the second one and the first one ignores you again.

Please let me know how this works out.  I believe it is much more natural, easier and better.

- Vengeance

Nilrem

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Re: IMPORTANT: How you talk to NPCs has changed!
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2006, 06:43:52 pm »
Haven't tested in game since I'm not playing it for some time but...
the first thing that came to mind is...

If we're meant to "roleplay" with the NPC (yeah that sounds ugly) how we're going to start the sentence with "Harnquist, who are you?" since theoretically the character doesn't know the name.
Previously you asked simply "who are you?" and got the answer of name&profession, using the target as a way of denoting that you were addressing to NPC.
Honestly, I do not see the need of changing that.
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Jwack

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Re: IMPORTANT: How you talk to NPCs has changed!
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2006, 06:47:10 pm »
And what if I want to talk to another player straight after talking to the npc. Do i have to wait 15 seconds?

Robinmagus

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Re: IMPORTANT: How you talk to NPCs has changed!
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2006, 07:23:18 pm »
Probably yes. 15 seconds of your prescious time gone won't hurt.  :innocent:
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Nikodemus

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Re: IMPORTANT: How you talk to NPCs has changed!
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2006, 07:39:31 pm »
I would really hate typing the NPC name. What if it has surname too? EDIT(yeah, i meant it ;P)
For example: (possible name)
Hajdzibajahaj Yrgrozt, Hi .

I rather want to press key assigned to macro which targets nearest npc, enter and then write.
Really.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2006, 08:53:28 pm by Nikodemus »



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Under the moon

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Re: IMPORTANT: How you talk to NPCs has changed!
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2006, 08:04:37 pm »
Tested it. Works fine for the most part.

Problem: "Harnquist hello." works, but not "Harnquist, hello." which I believe to be proper grammar.

Also, I would recommend two things. One, leave the old system in place as well. Multiple options for talking to NPCs never hurts. Two, Auto Tab complete for NPCs in close speaking range.

Robinmagus

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Re: IMPORTANT: How you talk to NPCs has changed!
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2006, 08:14:02 pm »
Sounds like a great improvement. Haven't tested it, but this may get me back ingame to do so...may.
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Myrthe

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Re: IMPORTANT: How you talk to NPCs has changed!
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2006, 08:15:08 pm »
It is a pain to target an NPC before talking to them.

Also, I would recommend two things. One, leave the old system in place as well. Multiple options for talking to NPCs never hurts. Two, Auto Tab complete for NPCs in close speaking range.
This i agree with, though.

And what if I want to talk to another player straight after talking to the npc. Do i have to wait 15 seconds?
Not a whole 15 seconds!?!? ;)

This is a good change, but especially for now, you should leave the other system in place. I bet the are loads of people in-game right now that have no idea what to do when talking to NPC's.

BTW: Tested and works, at least on Harn.

Under the moon

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Re: IMPORTANT: How you talk to NPCs has changed!
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2006, 08:27:06 pm »
There are loads of people that will have no idea how to talk to NPCs no matter what system you use. *laughs*

*edit* There are loads of people who will have no idea how to talk to ANYBODY no matter what system you use.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2006, 08:36:33 pm by Under the moon »

Karyuu

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Re: IMPORTANT: How you talk to NPCs has changed!
« Reply #9 on: August 19, 2006, 08:35:28 pm »
I'm wondering how this affects talking -about- an NPC and mentioning his/her name within hearing range. "Harnquist gave me the mining pick" will no longer work as well as "I got the mining pick from Harnquist", if I understand correctly. It would take quite a bit of effort to phrase this sentence so that the NPC's name is somewhere in the middle of the sentence.

Or is this taken care of somehow?
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Imshi

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Re: IMPORTANT: How you talk to NPCs has changed!
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2006, 08:46:05 pm »
There are also loads of NPC's that do not know how how to talk to players..../me ducks and runs for cover.....joking apart, once you learn NPC syntax it is'nt too bad, takes a lot of time though. For a new player it is very hard, especially if English is not your first language. Advisors are not allowed to give more than the broadest of hints....stil amazed it all happens.
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Nilrem

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Re: IMPORTANT: How you talk to NPCs has changed!
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2006, 09:00:45 pm »
Karyuu made a good point there.

Also, it feels a bit robotic to start the conversations always like this, with that enclosed way, feels like talking to a computer:
"Computer, turn the lights off"

We've enough clue words when it comes to talk to NPC as to even add more (even if this one is obvious, it becomes too mechanic, and artificial to have to start always with _name_ then sentence)

One of the things that are more difficult, and I talk with personal experience, is to not use the name that is flashing on top of players head, if you haven't been presented to that char or someone else described him/her to your char. It's really hard to not fall into that "temptation". It is as hard, if no more, to try to express this to new players, and convince them. It's one of the first things that allienate completely the game mechanics from the real roleplayed world. There are no labels, you see them, your char doesn't. Do not use the other char name if your char doesn't know it.
Trespassing this concept is hard, as I said, but is generally accepted if explained logically, I just don't see fine that I then have to add: "oh, but if what you try to talk to an NPC, you'll have to use the name you'll see on the label, even if your char doesn't know him/her, in order to make things work" it kind of destroys the argument that was previously built towards a more realistic environment, where you don't "guess" people's names.

There have been comments about how much time is lost and similar, I really think this is not the point here, since, for instance, with the current system yes, you turn to talk to someone, but you left the NPC selected, and the message doesn't show and you get the ugly reply from the NPC. Ok, you deselect the NPC, press up arrow key, hit enter, and the message is now displayed correctly, for the other person to see. I don't think this eats much time, so, time isn't the real point here.

Personally, I did not see any massive claim for this to be changed (talk to npc selecting them first) although it's true I've an enourmous amount of threads yet to be readen, but I never had this feeling of a chorous of voices claiming this to be changed. I do not know for sure, but, judging from the post title, seems as if the change was made without consulting anyone. Since it's a change that affects usability, I think it would have been better if this was asked before, in a separate thread, where people could discuss about this, and reach a point where it's decided (or not) to change how to address to NPC, and then make the code change. Again, when it affects something as close to the user as usability, perhaps it should be better if things were asked and devated first.

Edit to answer point 2:

Yes... but currently the most probable answer will be "Could you say that differently, I am not getting what you mean" and that, certainly is not very immersive, in fact kind of breaks the ambience.
Also, it's a matter of, the message should be recieved not only by the NPC, but also by the person you're talking to.
And the answer? Would it be sent only to the one that said the sentence "Harnquist gave me..." or will the one to whom the sentence was originally addressed to, recieve the NPC answer too?
Because if the NPC eavesdrops that ongoing conversation, instead of keeping a "private" talk (which is how talks with NPC were dealt, fortunately, till now) the most common reaction would be to openly talk to anyone around "You said I gave you what?" (but we all know he won't be answering that) anyway, if that ever happens (the NPC answering in open chat for all to see) that would be exploitable. Imagine someone trying to flood the chat, and even getting the "help" from the NPC, and what is the worst, with the NPC saying the most harmful sentences!
Player A:"Harnquist gave me a sword"
NPC Harnquist: "I don't get what you mean, say it differently"
Player B:"Oh, really, did he?"
Player A: "Of course he did, we're friends since childhood"
NPC Harnquist: "I don't get what you mean, say it..." (he now will talk to that one for the next 15 seconds?)
Player B: "How interesting, but I seem to hear a buzzing sound coming from his hut... something must be melting, and I think it's his brain."

That is, the NPC answer should be kept always in "private" to the one really talking to him, in order to prevent this "flooding", but if it is kept private, then the argument of "with this system there's a more immersive environment" gets broken.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2006, 09:21:31 pm by Nilrem »
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Vengeance

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Re: IMPORTANT: How you talk to NPCs has changed!
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2006, 09:01:54 pm »
1. I will fix the problem with punctuation.  That "should" work.

2. If you use the npc's name when talking about him, he will wake up, but if you think about it, shouldn't he?  If someone said your name, wouldn't you say "hmm?"

3. We can consider putting the targeting system back in but I really think you only like that because you are used to it now for years.  This new way is a much more natural and immersive way to do it.  Let's give it a month and see what we think then.

- Vengeance

Siteri Kidachi

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Re: IMPORTANT: How you talk to NPCs has changed!
« Reply #13 on: August 19, 2006, 10:13:49 pm »
Right now it seems like none of the NPCs will actually talk to me, even if I don't use the comma. I hope this is fixed soon because I have a quest that requires talking to an NPC and I can't finish it.

Anyway, might it be possible to have using the greet command on an NPC work to initiate a conversation? That way you would not have to use the name if your character doesn't know it. Obviously, saying someone's name is not the only way to get them to talk to you.

XWNI

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Re: IMPORTANT: How you talk to NPCs has changed!
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2006, 02:41:00 am »
Hello,

Please put the NPC chat back the way it was.  The latest changes have made things more complicated, wheras the previous method, select the NPC to talk actually worked quite well.

You have fixed a non-existent problem with a solution that is much worse,  :@#\  and has actually broken some NPC's ability to speak and interact altogether.

XW