IMPORTANT: How you talk to NPCs has changed!

[bilbous]

I'd like to make a few points that may not be completely appreciated.
1. How many times have you gone into the 7/11 and paid the counter attendent for your purchase without bothering to find out who they are? More often than not this will be the case.

2. Typing dialogue is not realistic. I do not use sign language to communicate with people so flashing fingers to get my message across is not conducive to realism. I would much rather create a macro for common expressions than have to retype them over and over. The new system does not prevent this but it does discourage it. You cannot create realism when something is inherrently unrealistic.

3. What if I have complete disdain for said npc why do I have to use his full name? Old harnie is a drunkard and does not deserve the honorific use of his full name. 'You there' is good enough for him in RP terms.

If you are going for realism then you must remove the NPC's ability to deal with multiple people at the same time. Harnquist is one person he cannot sell merchandise to 6 people simultaneously. Realism seems to be the euphemism for "Arbitrary Decision".
This is a fantasy role playing game, realism is not realistic. 8 foot blue silicone people are not realistic (in our experience) nor are most of the other races and critters. Neither is magic or the death realm. By all means make whatever arbitrary decisions you want to make just don't try to justify them in the name of realism.

[LARAGORN]

 Todays fast paced society cannot be compared to a Medieval setting. Price tags were never used, all prices of items in shops were memorized. for selling to a shopkeeper, you had to haggle to get your price. Dialog was always needed for all transactions.

The fantasy based realism, will always be a topic for debate. Everyone has there own unique view on how things should be, through there interpritation of the settings provided.

Just my two tria

[Venae Rell]

Here's another option...

I know we already have a lot of chat panes, but it seems like an NPC chat pane that directs your speech at the nearest NPC might be workable.

Maybe PlaneShift could eventually have several options for the same destination, like the way you can use different ways to get around your computer's system interface, depending on what you like.

Targeting the NPCs bothers some people, the 15-seconds-and-crafting-sentences-with-names bothers other people. An NPC chat pane would probably be tricky for newbies to grasp, but I'd probably use it a lot, to make sure I knew who I was talking to and to easily be sure when I was done and was able to talk to a player character without worrying about the NPC saying "You must stop this gibberish immediately."

And thanks to Venge, for thinking about the system and looking at ways to improve it 

[Quath]

I like the philosophy of the change.  I like the /greet idea.  By default it could say "Hello, $targetname."  But it could be extended to take arguments for customization like

/greet em tips his hat at $targetname.
/greet say Well met, friend.
/greet shout Great to see you again, $targetname!

They could be macroed and used when appropriate.  This would allow for an npc to be woken up in a roleplaying manner suitable for most everyone.

Quath

[bilbous]

I have a slightly more constructive comment now: When delivering items to an NPC using the give button the NPC should not need to be addressed by name for further conversation for a short time. Currently you give the item, the NPC gives his spiel and then if you want to ask about his next quest (if he has one) you must get his attention first.

[Kalika]

ive gotten called on a few timess for saying "oh (insert name) thank you"
then im told "how do you know my name?"

this is a difficult circumstance that ive found mysle fin many times trying to honestly rp in the game. i try to find some flimsy excuse like "oh through reputation" or "im psychic" but i feel awfully foolish for it...

also
i happen to  use emoticons(is that what theyre called? i.e. ) and i was told not to use those in conversation. but its jsut me expressing a feeling like a smile or what not i dont consider it actual conversation, i understand why its considered ooc, but aughghhghghg typing in "kalika smiles" every two seconds is awfully annoying. i would do it more but unless you havent met me in game you would know that im always giddy or something and hugging people and smiling and sometimes the emoticons are just much simpler to use...*ssigh* but i guess

im jsut blathering on

sorrys

anywho tlaking to the np's has gotten easier for me. tohugh i have  afew qquests tha ti dont know how to solve other than going up to every npc in the town and giving them the quest item and seeing what happens but so far that hasnt worke for me...i cant really ask for a translator, or i dunnos if i can or cant

again

sorry im blathering

anywho

much love to all

[Quath]

Recognizing someone is a tough issue.  One way is to have everyone unidenitified until introduced.  The character keeps a memory list for each character it knows.  However, it can get quite long if you are meeting new characters and npcs over months.  If you cap this, you run into problems of forgeting people.  (This is not entirely bad and could be based on intelligence stat.)

As for talking to npcs, the goal is for them to listen when talked to but not respond to meaningless chatter.  But sometimes that is fun.  I once was playing around in a MUD I was coding for.  I decided to create a secretary npc that would show people into my quarters and give messages when I was out.  (Sometimes boredom is the mother of invention.)  I got her detailed enough to respond to so man words, that I renamed her to a generic player name and stuck her in the middle of a town.

I watched people interact with her and got a kick as how often people thought she was a real person.  It would take awhile for them to figure out that she was not a pc.  But it worked because she listened to everything and would respond to certain keywords.

So I would suggest having some nocs that listen to everything as well as some that only listen when activated.

Quath

[JohnB]

I quite liked the sound of this change, except for the timer where you're talking to the NPC for 15 secs, so if say, someone comes up to you and says 'Excuse me, can you tell me...' while you're talking to an NPC they'll probably give up on you before you can say anything to them.  Maybe a hotkey is needed to break off talking to the NPC, or maybe the NPC could recognise a sentence with 'bye' or 'goodbye' in it to show that you're finished talking to them.  Okay, 15 seconds is not ages, and is probably about the minimum you need to make the new system work smoothly, but it could seem a very long time to wait from a response to a player who may be afk (I suppose you could jump up and down or something to show that you'd heard the question and would answer when you could).

Anyway, I might have hit on another problem (related to what bilbous says above), or maybe there's a problem with the quest now, or maybe I'm just being dumb, but I'm just trying to complete a quest for Harnquist and got stuck when you give him something, he says he'll teach you some more, OK?, so presumably you're supposed to respond Yes, but I can't get this to work in the new system.  Hopefully the following to illustrate the point is not too much of a spoiler:-

[I give Harnquist the X he's asked for]
Harnquist tells you: Ah good. It is important to ...blah blah blah ... If so, find a Y for me and bring it here.  OK?
Aelfwine says: Yes
[No response from Harnquist]
Aelfwine says: Yes Harnquist
Harnquist tells you: Sorry, can you use a simpler but complete phrase?
Aelfwine says: say Yes
Harnquist tells you: Sorry, can you use a simpler but complete phrase?

I've tried it three times now, after the first time making sure I said 'Hello Harnquist' before I gave him the X (again - some more of my hard-earned goods gone!) so that he should already have been talking to me, but the same result.  Giving him the items seems to cancel his attention, then if you get his attention by using his name again he doesn't realise he's just asked you 'OK?'.

Any tips?

[Fayodin]

so can we actually talk to the npc's yet??? or is it still not working

[Siteri Kidachi]

You can talk to some of the NPCs. Others still don't work.

[Fayodin]

which ones do work?

[neko kyouran]

John, simply go find item Y and give it harny.  I don't believe you need to respond yes to him asking you ok.

[Szyx]

Why will Levrus not talk? Is he in the process of upgrading?

I dont mind either system. Its just, i wish I could at least talk to the characters that are more important. Please make sure he gets upgraded soon! I would adore you all if that happened!   
 
Best of luck gertting this all figured out. 

[JohnB]

John, simply go find item Y and give it harny.  I don't believe you need to respond yes to him asking you ok.

Thanks Neko, yes you were right. (That bit of the quest's not very well worded IMO - if he asks a question I'd expect him to want a reply).

[zanzibar]

When I was playing PS as a player the other night, I tried talking to the npc's, and aside from the obvious vocabulary problems, I really didn't like how I had to target the NPC first before I spoke.  I also didn't like how when I was talking to the player next to me, with the npc targeted, the npc kept responding to my chatting with the other player.  So I have changed all that.

Now, to talk to any npc, just say their first name at the beginning or end of your sentence.  For example, you can say "Harnquist, hello" or "Hello harnquist", and he should respond.  After you have used his name and he knows you are talking to him, he keeps paying attention for 15 seconds in case you say something else.  So for 15 seconds, you don't have to keep typing his name.  As long as you keep talking to him, the 15 seconds keeps getting reset.  If you stop for a while and then start talking to him again, you'll need to use his name again.

Also, if you talk to one npc, then switch to another, the 15 seconds switches to the second one and the first one ignores you again.

Please let me know how this works out.  I believe it is much more natural, easier and better.

- Vengeance

Uh, no.  Bad idea.  This means that in order to get the NPC to stop spamming your chat box, you have to be silent for 15 seconds.  Karyuu and Nilrem also pointed out serious flaws with this change.  The "waking up" thing you said is just plain dumb.  It doesn't make sense for a NPC to wake up then assume that every single thing you say is directed towards him.  As far as realism goes, this kills realism.  Using eye contact, tone, and body language, a person can signal who he's talking to without saying the other person's name.  This new system doesn't allow for that, whereas targetting did a wonderful job of it.  If targetting and untargetting NPCs is too much of a hassle for you, maybe you're just lazy.

I am absolutely opposed to this change.  It's unintelligent and unneccessary.