Trash, Litterbugs and Preachers

[eldoth_terevan]

I had a lecture last night from a PC who found me next to a bunch of items that were layed out by someone for presentation purposes. I can take the occasional lecture or criticism, that itself was not so bad because they were essentially right (though snooty), so I went ahead and picked them up all the items though ... even though the majority of the objects did not belong to me.

I feel that this subject is one that is considerably confusing to PCs right now, and I would like to make a couple of points, and ask a couple of questions...

1) Don't moralize at people about this sort of thing: PICK IT UP! If it is an object lying around somewhere then it takes less effort to pick it up than it does to type a bunch of stuff at someone who is probably just going to tune you out -- not that I would, I do TRY to listen -- but many would just take it the wrong way.

2) Either objects on the ground BELONG TO SOMEONE or they are LITTER. Make up YOUR minds, PCs! I have seen characters dress down a newbie for picking up something laying around that was obviously not being watched by someone, claiming that "it wasn't theirs" and while this is a noble sentiment it may not be correct in PS with regards to the strain it puts on the server.

2a) If someone has just placed an object on the ground between their legs and are standing over it, it MUST be considered theirs because they might be redoing their inventory or showing it to someone or trading. I have seen characters swoop in and grab stuff like this and I consider them thieves and more importantly, just plain rude. But if an object is just sitting around with nobody near it, that is another case...

3) I have noticed that objects in the world will still be there after the server goes down or restarts. What is up with the garbage collection processess? Assuming you guys have had the time to put them in, why do they not fire occasionally and take out the trash? Is it because the devs INTEND that items placed in the world should stay there? If that is so, obviously it would not be a good thing to have 10,000+ rat hides laying around near Harnquist, but are the players the ONLY ONES actually controlling this situation?

4) The reason that we have so much trash lying around is because -- for example -- if one has a rat hide that one does not need and a gold ore that one does, and there is nobody around who wants it, the PC is going to drop the rat hide. One trashcan by Harnquist's would be enough, and maybe one in Oja. The furnace will burn just about anything, but that is not fair to people who are trying to work Metallurgy to burn other items in there. All we need is one container that destroys utterly anything placed within it.

I think I already mentioned 4 in a post in the wish list, and I am sure it is not like you guys have not talked about these things. But I thank you most graciously for your consideration and your time.

Eldoth bows and smiles.

[Karyuu]

I have had players lecture me for dropping items in front of an NPC for roleplay, telling me that I was littering and slowing down the server At that point you just roll your eyes, smile and nod, and walk away.

GMs do run "map clean-ups" every now and then. We teleport to items far out in the middle of nowhere or stuck in some sewer corner, etc., and just get rid of them. Sometimes you find some really bizarre stuff - like 10 pies floating 100 meters up with no clue as to how that happened :} Anyway - I think having a 'Destroy' button within your inventory (as Ralleyon suggested in the Wishlist just the other day) is the best thing for such situations. There weren't many public trash containers in the middle ages. Waste was pretty much discared on the streets, creating extremely filthy conditions in densely populated areas. (And thus the perfect breeding ground for rats and the spread of the Bubonic Plague.)

[zog]

can you say "chamberpots" and "second story window" ?

*shudder*

[eldoth_terevan]

Karyuu: Yeah, that is about all you can do. Yeah, a destroy button would be great. I did a Trashcan in NWN with the Aurora Toolset and just loved it. Would run around picking stuff up and putting it into it then I attached a flame spell effect to it so I had an incinerator... So my thinking was kinda prejudiced. Definitely right on about the trash in the Middle Ages, but actually I think that in the there was always someone to EAT the garbage back then, one person's garbage being anothers feast. (shudder) But still, you might have a pit with a couple of extra-strong Ulbers in it that eat anything that is tossed down there. Then you could put up a sign saying Please Do Not Feed the Ulbers and someone could come along and preach at the PCs actually throwing things down there. Eldoth smiles. Zog: Hah! Very true... Eldoth shudders and wonders where people ... erm go in Hydlaa.

[Capprion]

i generally use it in the gold mine. or sometimes in the sewer...but what i wana know is why theres a sewer and no bathrooms   itsk ind of like   acient rome with the sewer and england with the pots, dont make much sense together

[The Wandering Djinn]

Players Policy - Must Read!

Dropping Items

Players are not allowed to drop items to decorate the world map! This puts stress on many clients and increases lag.
If you need to drop items for roleplay, clean up after yourself - and don't expect the items to remain if you don't.
Drop items for short time decorations at your own risk. GMs cannot get items back for you, as once something is on the ground, you lose ownership rights.

At the risk of being labelled a Preacher here, I think that the above quote from the Players Policy covers everything concerning littering of loot and of other items. In game, and in a hopefully [IC] manner, I have "chewed out" characters both for littering and for picking up items that were being used to enhance and decorate RP events - most recently at the Funeral Service for Sir Vaice Ulfahr. I try to read the situation in which the items came to be on the ground and to allow for their being in transit amongst any nearby PC's, although transfer of items between Player's Characters should be done using the /trade command.

Items, usually in piles that I find hidden in the landscape, I will pick these up if I can, and if in a pile that is too heavy to pick up, I will notify an online [GM] with details of the nearest sector map position I can reach to that pile.

[Karyuu]

The rule in the Player Policy was mostly to address a hobby that carried itself over from MB - spelling gigantic things out with crystals or other items, lining them up around buildings, etc. With a very large number of these, performance does slow down for those who don't have high-end machines. We're not talking 5-10 rat skins lined up for something - more like hundreds and hundreds unstacked items in plain view :}

[bilbous]

Hey I have an Idea. If you don't want something Don't Loot IT Really, how hard is it to skip that apple. And hey lots of this garbage is edible so Eat IT. Of better still if it is inorganic feed it to a Kran. They should be able to eat just about anything. Certainly they should not rely on hydrocarbon based organics. Well just kidding about that as sadly only regular foodstuffs are edible.

uuhhh guess I'm getting off-track here. Maybe the town could have a dump. There doesn't seem to be anything in the first area on the way to oja. Turn the four rogues into junk dealers.

[Anne Ominous]

In the time period the game takes place there wasn't waste management--but there also weren't effective spells like we have... I think one imprtant point is that in a fantasy game with magic you could base it in the stone age & still have utopian cities... No reason trash bins couldn't be enchanted or magical..

it would be nice to have either dumps or trash cans with gmlike carrying capacity, that empty every 24 in game hours, till then people can dumpster-dive... I bet our beggars would appreciate the oppertunity..

(or allowing krans to eat all items with an /eat command)

On the topic of beggars & utopian societies etc-- i was wondering if/when housing were implented--would there be any sort of homeless shelter or such?--not so much for actual storage, but for rp purposes... i know in time period they would be left to rot in the street, but knowing how much the communities of ps seem to spend time effort & trias on helping those in need it would be likely they build that as soon as their own house is built... just a thought that followed the thinking

[miadon]

when the server is more stable and such, litter left on the ground adds realism AND can make some interesting jobs, such as scrap merchants, who go around looking for good scrap then selling it off.

[RayvenD]

I tell ye what, simple solution. If ya aint be needin them things that ye wuz throwin on that thurr floor, come find me an i'll have it all!

[eldoth_terevan]

I think I am already a scrap merchant... I constantly scan for things and pickup the trash and then waste time going and selling these things all over the place. Like Karyuu said, you find some really wierd piles of stuff in the wierdest places, buried in walls up high with nowhere above to stand and drop from. Keep Hydlaa clean everyone... pickup some trash when you see it. Eat your apples, bread, pies, et cetera so we can all stay logged in longer. A buddy had a bad inventory bug yesterday (that Venge and those guys are working on atm) that resulted in everything dumping on the ground and all the other PCs jumped on it and he lost just about everything ... so be nice to others and give their stuff back if you pick it up: these little icons have no REAL VALUE people so give other characters stuff back if they have a bit of bad luck ... I hate litterbugs but thieves downright suck and they ruin the sense of community. Thanks again for listening to my rant.

[Keyaz]

The rule in the Player Policy was mostly to address a hobby that carried itself over from MB - spelling gigantic things out with crystals or other items, lining them up around buildings, etc. With a very large number of these, performance does slow down for those who don't have high-end machines. We're not talking 5-10 rat skins lined up for something - more like hundreds and hundreds unstacked items in plain view :}

"woops" 

anyways..

the server does some bizarre things occasionally, as a GM i did find things floating way out of possible player reach, one was a 'dark crystal short sword' (work out the dark/crystal thing eh? o.o) that was over the hills to the left of the woods that elad to the magic shop, off of walkable ground by about 200 meters.

other things have been rotten meat and rats eyes under the cities mostly, I think at some point the server may have decided to throw someone down their, they figured out how to fall and die and dropped their unwanteds as they fell.

flaoting pies however... I think Laanx is playing mind games with us.

but yes, as the player policy states, anything dropped onto the floor is free to take for any player, if you plan to drop such items for show purposes to friends, I would strongly suggest you do it in a less public place, likethe top floro of Kada-El's for instance.

jsut my POV

[LARAGORN]

The giant face on the edge of the BD road 1, was originaly labelled a waste disposale shute. It was to be for all garbage, including dead boddies 

It would be a perfect spot for a real garbage shute. I know it has been used a lot for RP stuff, but to give it the original function would be awsome 

[Karyuu]

If people want to use it as such right now even, that's fine. GMs will stop by, driving their Garbage Pterosaurs, and clean it out every so often :] Saves us time hunting for garbage all over the world anyway.