Author Topic: Should that be allowed?  (Read 4985 times)

zhai

  • Hydlaa Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 391
    • View Profile
Re: Should that be allowed?
« Reply #45 on: September 04, 2006, 04:59:45 pm »
What would you do if you had friends who believed in vampires IRL? Same thing. Call them crazy or something... or you can do the Beanius approach and be unable to notice them. Maybe they could add this to their vampiric characteristics: they can only be seen and heard by a few (I see undead people). That would help those who don't want to have anything at all to do with this.

One thing is for sure though, nobody has the right to shut down other people's plots and fun just because they have different opinions, and we haven't proved there's actual conflict with settings here yet. You don't like the idea, Yliakum's a big world and those involved with the plot can actually play without you (and I'm not referring to anyone in particular here, so please don't take offense), so just walk away.
:: The Flaming Feather :: Lady of the Rangers ::

Colinb

  • Hydlaa Resident
  • *
  • Posts: 196
    • View Profile
Re: Should that be allowed?
« Reply #46 on: September 04, 2006, 05:18:19 pm »
If your talking about vampire hunter lords that was a joke that COV did in guild forums. And you have to just respect there ideas of planeshift. It is constantly evolving.

Nikodemus

  • Prospects
  • Veteran
  • *
  • Posts: 1808
    • View Profile
Re: Should that be allowed?
« Reply #47 on: September 04, 2006, 06:27:04 pm »
What would you do if you had friends who believed in vampires IRL? Same thing. Call them crazy or something... or you can do the Beanius approach and be unable to notice them.
First its not same as in real, because here we have friends who think the way because they arent crazy, in real they would be really crazy, while here, maybe its you who is crazy, because you deny somethink whats true?
Second (answer already in my previous post)
...conclude, that they must be on drugs or somethink if they tell about such idiotic stories. But later my character finds out that they really suck blood and all the stuff, not posible to be denied?
One thing is for sure though, nobody has the right to shut down other people's plots and fun just because they have different opinions, and we haven't proved there's actual conflict with settings here yet. You don't like the idea, Yliakum's a big world and those involved with the plot can actually play without you (and I'm not referring to anyone in particular here, so please don't take offense), so just walk away.
This is no opinion, this is a fact, vampirism is outside the setting. This has been stated many many times before, just like with dragons, guns and similiar.
Even if you wont find it on the main PS site (just like 90%~99% of other setting), it is fact. The current vampire guild story could be possible in ps setting, but it isn't only and so much because of one thing: vampires don't exist in PS
No matter how much new people want it, they have no right only because they wasn't there a bit longer to hear there is no vampires because it was said so! I suppose, the only reason why Karyuu don't care that much is because their roleplay is on high level and it is hard to banish them just like that. It's tought, but it has to be done or all what was said before about setting won't matter at all anymore. Everybody who will roleplay well dragons, guns and simliar, will have place in PS.

Because i'm not cruel to death ;P I say that if they are really roleplaying so well, i'm sure they can come up with idea which has as much to do with vampirism as Krans with elemental creatures, or golems.



What you can failure tommorow, failure today.


Better click for shiny stylez Help me with images!

Colinb

  • Hydlaa Resident
  • *
  • Posts: 196
    • View Profile
Re: Should that be allowed?
« Reply #48 on: September 04, 2006, 06:35:42 pm »
Anyone care to explain how vampires got here? What next werewolves???

Siteri Kidachi

  • Hydlaa Notable
  • *
  • Posts: 542
    • View Profile
Re: Should that be allowed?
« Reply #49 on: September 04, 2006, 07:04:42 pm »
Just because people bring one thing from somewhere else into PS doesn't mean they want to allow anything from anywhere in.

Wereulbernauts perhaps? That would fit better...

Farren Kutter

  • Veteran
  • *
  • Posts: 1062
  • Death is only the beginning. Then true life begins
    • View Profile
Re: Should that be allowed?
« Reply #50 on: September 04, 2006, 07:14:14 pm »
How can you say there is no vampirism? Technically there should be no life on Earth, but it happened. There should be no vampirism in Yliakum, but it happened. Deal with it. End of story.


EDIT: Werewolves are a different story. Creatures from Earth would not exist in Yliakum I'm sure, but the same time of thing could be possible with some other creature, though that would be going way too far...
« Last Edit: September 04, 2006, 07:16:56 pm by Farren Kutter »




zhai

  • Hydlaa Citizen
  • *
  • Posts: 391
    • View Profile
Re: Should that be allowed?
« Reply #51 on: September 04, 2006, 07:18:31 pm »
@ Nikodemus: I've been looking for that specific message "Vampires don't exist in PS" coming from any mod or settings team member and haven't found it yet. If you can find one, I'll totally agree with you but so far, that's the opinion of other testers of the game and  I don't give it any more weight than to the opinion of those in favor of this particular RP.

This thing has been highly criticized for it's lack or originality. Yes, it is not new. You're right about that. And I think that is the problem. Claiming that it does not belong in PS will not make it go away. It will be a flawed argument until the devs. officially ban it. And these things are dealt with as they show up, so it doesn't open the door for anything: cellphones, werewolves, dragons, leprecons, smurfs, etc. Things that are in conflict with settings are always noticed and discussed. Vampires have been, and as far as I know, whereas no NPC is a vampire, there's no official statement that claims that a PC can't be one (I did do a search and skimmed through many threads, and I may have missed it, so if anyone knows where it is please do quote it! That'll settle things about this).
:: The Flaming Feather :: Lady of the Rangers ::

Thyme

  • Hydlaa Resident
  • *
  • Posts: 97
    • View Profile
Re: Should that be allowed?
« Reply #52 on: September 04, 2006, 07:30:38 pm »
I would just like to point out that so far no one has given an actual explanation as to why vampires don't fit the PS settings, other than:
a) they just don't
b) they're from popular culture
c) vampires aren't currently in existence in the PS settings on the website, therefore it is not possible for it to be acceptable.
d) vampires are cliche and they're unoriginal and they ruin all the fun for everyone else in the universe (;P ok, a bit of an exaggeration, but hey!)

Earlier, I posted an explanation of how we could conceptualize of vampires in PS.  Not as a race or species, but rather as a disease (which could include both a viral infection or a genetic mutation/disorder).  In my explanation, the term "vampire" or "vampirism" is a common term used to describe a being that drinks the blood of another being to survive, thus the word vampire can be used to describe any being on PS that drinks blood.

Siteri pointed out that wereulbernauts were a possibility in PS (as opposed to werewolves, since wolves in fact do not exist in PS), and like vampirism, lycanthropy or were-animal, can be understood as a disease that causes one being to turn into another being for a period of time (such as under stress, during a certain time of year, on command, etc).  Would people disagree with an RP where a Ynnwn contracted a disease that periodically turned them into an Enki? Or into a Clacker?  In fact, I think I remember a few months ago someone who was RPing that they had been turned into an Ulber... as a curse or something (I can't quite remember).  Calling a person with such a disease a were-enki or a were-clacker would make sense, since the prefix "were" is used to refer to their transformed status, not of a description of some fixed being.

So yes, concepts of vampirism and lycanthropy exist outside PS, but they are terms that have been used to loosely describe a general behaviour.  The word vampire is only associated to "Buffy" or "Dracula" for some people - usually those whose only encourters with vampires is through these popular culture icons in Western society.  However, vampirism has been used to describe many other things:  Such as... vampire bats, cannibalism, seductresses, etc.

So this is my invitation for someone to offer a really good reason why people in PS should never try to RP a form of vampirism or other mythical disease, as long as they work it within the boundaries of the PS world.

I think so far the Monstrumis Bloodline guild has done an effective job of this.  If anyone can point to something they have done in their RP plot or story line that doesn't fit the settings, I would really like to know.

Karyuu is right, vampirism won't last forever in PS, but it if comes up every so often for players to use to advance their characters and add some drama to the lives of the people of Yliakum, then I don't see why there should be calls for erradicating such RPs as long as they are well thought out.  Like I said earlier, I just ignore the RP plots that I am not interested in, and I am fairly certain that most people do as well.  If you're tired of hearing about the vampires and you're RPing with a friend who is involved with the RP, just roll your eyes and tell your friend that you're tired of hearing of these vampires and want to talk about something else.  People do that all the time in the real world (example: "Ok, enough talking about serial killer X, I'm so tired of hearing about it!  Let's talk about something less depressing")

Thyme Zataar - masseuse for hire

Cha0s

  • Veteran
  • *
  • Posts: 1860
    • View Profile
Re: Should that be allowed?
« Reply #53 on: September 04, 2006, 08:19:05 pm »
Well... I know the settings isn't complete yet... so some flexibility is allowed... but a whole new RACE? For crying out loud! Does anyone remember the dragon guild? Yea, they're not here any more. You can not just build things into the settings on a whim. There are things that are given in a world unless stated otherwise: for instance, people need to eat, breath, and sleep. People cook food. People can die. Et cetera, et cetera, so you can roleplay cooking even if they don't talk about it in the settings. You can not, however, make major modifications to the settings. Even if vampires are not a race, you are still making a major addition to the settings and you just can't do that.

Now, at the moment we have vampires. Am I saying they should all be banned? No. That wouldn't be productive. I would encourage them to move towards the end of their plot-line because I can guarantee they will not last forever by any means. As Karyuu mentioned, a lot of the devs really don't like vampires in Planeshift and, as Planeshift becomes more "complete" (yes, I know it will never actually be finished) the tolerance of such settings modifications will decrease. So for now, let the vampires do their thing... but the vampire population should be decreasing, not increasing (in other words, don't start up new vampire plot lines ;) ).

Now, people have asked, "Why are there no vampires in Planeshift?" Up till now, it's been, "It isn't explicitly stated in the settings." Well, here's a more definite answer: the settings team said there aren't any vampires. If you don't think that's fair, you have two options: play without vampires or find another game. This whole argument has gone on for far too long. Oh, and in case you wonder at my source:
[2:10pm] *Cha0s* what's the settings team's opinion on Vampires, vampirism, etc in Planeshift?
[2:12pm] *Xordan* vampires don't exist
[2:12pm] *Cha0s* never will
[2:12pm] *Cha0s* ?
[2:12pm] *Xordan* nope

Now you have an official answer from the settings team. No more argument! :P
« Last Edit: September 04, 2006, 08:22:41 pm by Cha0s »
Cha0s
Mac OS X Forum Moderator
In-Game Roleplay Forum Moderator
Please search and skim existing threads before posting!

Nikodemus

  • Prospects
  • Veteran
  • *
  • Posts: 1808
    • View Profile
Re: Should that be allowed?
« Reply #54 on: September 04, 2006, 08:23:00 pm »
For you Zhai:
Tha is why there will be no dragons, no horses, no faeries, etc. These, in addition to vampires, are the most overdone subjects in the history of fantasy games.

It\'s just not going to happen. So many discussions have taken place, so many threads, that I\'m amazed there is still an argument to make.
Nothing as mainstream as what Draklar mentioned, pretty much, including werewolves, vampires, etc. Doesn\'t mean you can\'t say that your character arrived from a different world which had all these, but they do not exist in Yliakum, and never will :)
Poor Karyuu, It must be hard to be a mod sometimes and satisfy everybody.

How can you say there is no vampirism? Technically there should be no life on Earth, but it happened. There should be no vampirism in Yliakum, but it happened. Deal with it. End of story.

EDIT: Werewolves are a different story. Creatures from Earth would not exist in Yliakum I'm sure, but the same time of thing could be possible with some other creature, though that would be going way too far...
The vampirism didn't happened in Yliakum. Things doesnt happen just like that in Yliakum, only because some group of people want it. It can't be outside the setting. And i repeat, it doesnt matter why, enough is that it has been said there are no vampires in PS.
Also werewolves is exactly the same thing. But both vampires and werewolves arent creatures from earth, but from peoples minds. Nobody can deny Yliakum freaks who believe in them, but there would be finally good rp reason to call them psychos.

And the end of story was long time ago, before anyone could predict you are going to post

Thyme, in your point c) you got the whole thing the other way around, probably because of lack of reading skill, ignorance or lack of respect to the words of others. Doesn't matter which. The rest of your post has also a lot of flaws, but it is pointles to point out them since maybe 10% of your post brought up something new. Sorry.




What you can failure tommorow, failure today.


Better click for shiny stylez Help me with images!

Farren Kutter

  • Veteran
  • *
  • Posts: 1062
  • Death is only the beginning. Then true life begins
    • View Profile
Re: Should that be allowed?
« Reply #55 on: September 04, 2006, 08:26:09 pm »
Well vampirism will be here whatever anyone says, so we should just accept it.




Thyme

  • Hydlaa Resident
  • *
  • Posts: 97
    • View Profile
Re: Should that be allowed?
« Reply #56 on: September 04, 2006, 08:27:22 pm »
Thanks for the info Cha0s
I won't post on vampirism anymore.
 :)

Thyme Zataar - masseuse for hire

Nikodemus

  • Prospects
  • Veteran
  • *
  • Posts: 1808
    • View Profile
Re: Should that be allowed?
« Reply #57 on: September 04, 2006, 08:29:13 pm »
Well vampirism will be here whatever anyone says, so we should just accept it.
And ignore you, like any ideas about vampires.



What you can failure tommorow, failure today.


Better click for shiny stylez Help me with images!

Cha0s

  • Veteran
  • *
  • Posts: 1860
    • View Profile
Re: Should that be allowed?
« Reply #58 on: September 04, 2006, 08:30:25 pm »
Farren, the settings team said, "no," very loudly and very clearly. That doesn't mean it needs to vanish immediately, but it needs to start phasing out. Eventually, if it continues to be an issue, the devs probably will institute some sort of outright ban on it. I think it would be better if the vampires made a graceful exit than if they simply ceased to exist one day. ;)

P.S. I think we've said all that needs to be said on this issue... so if everyone could kindly... *looks meaningfully at the Back button on everyone's browser*
« Last Edit: September 04, 2006, 08:32:04 pm by Cha0s »
Cha0s
Mac OS X Forum Moderator
In-Game Roleplay Forum Moderator
Please search and skim existing threads before posting!

Siteri Kidachi

  • Hydlaa Notable
  • *
  • Posts: 542
    • View Profile
Re: Should that be allowed?
« Reply #59 on: September 04, 2006, 09:05:53 pm »
So, what are we supposed to do about it after all the events related to the vampire RP are over? Forget it ever happened? Or if you're going with the angle that the people who believe in the vampires are insane... would you stay friends with someone you knew was crazy? Will being part of the vampire RP force our characters to lose their friends?!

As for Karyuu saying that dragons/horses/fairies/vampires are the most overdone subjects in fantasy...

Um, I know I've said this before, but... how about HUMANS, ELVES, and DWARVES?! All of which are in PS, and which are way more overdone than at LEAST fairies and vampires, if not dragons and horses. I think that if PS really wants the right to force everything to be original, it should junk all the current races (and rats) and come up with new ones. ALL the races are pretty much similar to something which has been done in loads of fantasy works before. Yes, I know the official race names are not "human", "elf", and "dwarf" (except for the tip note about dwarves that shows up every so often) but that doesn't change what they are.

As someone else once said, if this keeps up we won't be able to call a door a "door" because that's what it is in the real world.